Satanism and the History of Wicca

Paganism, witchcraft, and Wicca as portrayed on TV, movies, and popular culture. Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, Charmed, Practical Magic, etc. If you know of a good show or movie, you can recommend it here or discuss it with others.
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waterglyph
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Satanism and the History of Wicca

Post by waterglyph »

Okay kids, I'm sure that there is at least one fluffy bunny Wiccan hiding somewhere on this site - and if it's you, try to repress your rage until you finish this article.

I'm not a religious historian, so I can't say if this is totally accurate, though I can attest to the fact that this is a very interesting article and will make you think. (So if you don't like what you've read, bitch out the author, not me. :tongue:) Reading new things from alternate viewpoints is a good thing. I'm not saying you have to agree with everything you read, but being a little open-minded to speculation and mentally flexible will serve you well as a Wiccan. (Or any other religious denomination for that matter...)

So here's a (somewhat long) article for the Wiccans and anyone else who feels like reading it. *lol*

Satanism and the History of Wicca by Diane Vera
silvermists

Post by silvermists »

LOL, wow. That person was so defensive. It was funny.

~Krissi
5moons
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Post by 5moons »

Thank you water for the new info
JBRaven
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Post by JBRaven »

That was well written. I must pass that on to other I know.
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Starwitch
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Post by Starwitch »

Interesting article. I just now saw this thread, sorry for the late reply. I like this paragraph from the article:
What's especially annoying is the way many Wiccans claim the word "Witchcraft" as a name for their own religion, defining not only "Wicca" but also "Witchcraft" as a religion distinct from Satanism. Excuse me, but witchcraft is not a religion. There are witches all over the world, in many different cultures. They don't all belong to one religion. A witch can be any religion. One of my great-grandfathers was a "water witch" who told people where to dig wells. He was a devout Christian. If a Christian can be a witch, then so can a Satanist. There have been both Christians and Satanists calling themselves witches long before today's Wiccans came along. (See Randolph's and Creighton's books, for example.) So I really wish Wiccans would stop using the word "witchcraft" as a name for their own specific religion. I don't object to Wiccans calling themselves witches, but I do object to the idea that all true witches are Wiccan (or at least Pagan) and that, therefore, Satanists can't be witches.
Good point. Too many Wiccans think that witchcraft=Wicca=witchcraft and it just isn't so. I wasn't aware of the Satanic connection to Wicca, but I'm not surprised at all by it and I don't doubt that it is probably true. I wonder what word she would prefer that witches use for themselves? She says using the word "witch" (among other words) is why people confuse Wiccans with Satanists, so I assume that would include all witches, not just Wiccans. I know a lady that runs a witchcraft store, but doesn't call herself a witch (but I don't know what she calls herself besides a psychic) and she says she sells "enchantments" instead of spells.

Ravenari
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Post by Ravenari »

I wonder what word she would prefer that witches use for themselves?

It depends on the culture. For example, many Slavic practicioners of Witchcraft consider themselves and their practice as being religious / spiritual, and will call themselves anything from 'witch' to Slavic pagan to any number of native terms that fit their practices.

On the other hand, a neopagan who just practices the 'tools' of witchcraft, may be more comfortable just simply calling themselves a 'witch', and not associating it with any tradition.

Personally, I like the term witch, and I like the idea of reclaiming it from its negative stereotypes.
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Post by Leo*Moon »

When I started my path early on as a Wiccan (though I'm not anymore) I didn't think of myself as a witch because I felt that a person who does witchcraft (spells etc.) is a witch and being Wiccan doesn't mandate performing witchcraft (in that sense). So I guess I agree that Withcraft and religion are seperate.
Today, I do not associate myself with any religion but I still don't consider myself a "witch" rather an "eclectic pagan." I disagree that it may be a matter of culture but more a matter of how the practicioner views him/herself (ie. Celtic Pagan and Irish Witch).
I think that's where a lot of problems in NeoPaganism arise today. The ability to personalize your practices and traditions is the great part but also its downfall because everyone is different: there can be no one set of rules for everyone to agree on (ie. The 13 Principles of Belief).

....I've probably gotten way off track now... :?
The fool thinks himself to be wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. ~Shakespeare
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Post by Moon_Stone »

Hmm, am I the only one who is getting "404 error: file not found" when I click the link?

I'd like to read that article, waterglyph- could you try to post it again (or provide a link to the main page where you found that article)....?

Thanks :28:

~BB~
slagy

Post by slagy »

Im also getting it. I really want to read that. If there is anyway somone could get the link and host it on some img hosting site like put the page on it or somthing.
[scifichick]
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Post by [scifichick] »

Here is a link that should work:
http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/paga ... Wicca.html
I just googled the name of the article, this one was the first to come up.
Only in silence the word,/ only in dark the light,/ only in dying life:/ bright the hawk's flight/ on the empty sky. --Le Guin
Sobek
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Post by Sobek »

that woman throws around labels like theres no tomorrow! i believe that people can use whatever words they like to describe what they want. just because she doesnt like it no reason to go and have a hissy fit.
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Post by Eretik »

I think this article is sane, well evidenced and correct in most, if not all of it's assumptions. She has put eloquently, much of what I accept and believe and I have read a lot of the material cited here, but not all. I think a lot of people could benefit from reading this, even if they don't like it! The truth is no less true for being unpalatable.
thatguy
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Post by thatguy »

Well, I read this article because many people have recommended it. I find it hard to comment because, being neither Christian nor Wiccan, nor following a path closely tied to witchcraft, I'm not strongly attached to the issue emotionally.

Although not traditionally cited, the article follows an academic style and may be relatively unapproachable. Unfortunately, i haven't read any of the cited material, nor am I aware of how the community views the legitimacy of that material.

I was interested to read about Wicca's ties to feminism, if these ties are truly as strong as is stated, I can certainly believe that there are strong ties between Wicca and Satanism. Unfortunately, I've never been big on the idea of fighting mythos with mythos. I sometimes worry that the receivers of counter-mythology aren't fully aware of the intentions of its creators. In any case, since I only ever took a smattering of social science, I'll leave the details to the sociologists.

Personally, I'm concerned that religious debate surrounding Wicca might overwhelm those who are simply following witchcraft-related and/or shamanic practices for the sake of attaining knowledge or spiritual development. I'll admit that it's true that there are social impediments to spiritual development, however, I'm not certain that these can be alleviated with organized counter-culture.

T. Guy.
[Hearthwitch]
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Post by [Hearthwitch] »

Forgive me if I err- I just woke up after a long night of study. The exam period really kills me.

Sadly, I haven't read all of the sources that the article cited but I have read quite a bit about different forms of Satanism and some of Crowley. I've also read quite a bit about the history of Wicca. As far as I can tell the article has some good points.

Did Wicca emerge from the same stew-pot that many of modern forms of Satanism did? Yes. Wicca and (depending on your definition) modern Satanism sprung up within a few decades of each other. Everyone knows that Gardner created Wicca in the 50s. Modern Satanism likewise has recent roots. They both begged, borrowed and stole symbols and practices in an attempt to create a history for themselves. They also used some of the same bad scholarship to justify themselves. So did everyone else at that time.


Does Wicca recognize the part Satanism plays in history? Of course! Indeed, it makes a great story! We all know the 'history' of innocent Witches and midwives persecuted by Christian fanatics who called them Satanists and devil worshipers. It gives us something to point at and say 'not us!', just as the article says. It gives us a reason to feel like martyrs because we were apparently persecuted and our sacred symbols corrupted. Powerful stuff indeed, although I'd rather leave the whole martyrdom thing to Christianity.

From this point on, I admit I get a little frustrated. It seems like the rest of the article is a battle of who had it first. Personally, I find such arguments tedious and just a bit silly. Not to mention it's near impossible to say who had what first. Besides, go back a few more thousand years and Satanism, like Christianity, vanishes. Then we get to battle it out between the Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, etc. as to who had what first.

Hearthwitch.
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