who is right?

[fuel1316]

ive been reading lots of things about the elements and i keep finding mixed info. who has the right info? some say water is autumn.. some say its summer?

which is correct?

[JBRaven]

It really is up to what you think is right. This is your tradition and your magic.

For me I associate like this:
Spring -----Air
Summer---Fire
Fall---------Water
Winter-----Earth

[fuel1316]

so nothing is set?

i didnt know

thank you

im in the process of making a garden (my first) and i was going to put a water feature in the west. another site said south just wasnt sure why it was so varied

[WatchfulEyeTheButterfly]

I've always heard it like this:
Earth-North
Air-East
Fire-South
Water-West
But really it's up to you. (:

[JBRaven]

direction wise I have heared it two ways, the one above and
Earth west
Fire east
water north
Air south.

mostly the above from my youth in Western Russia and czech republic.
Fire because the sun rises in the east
Water north because of the ice
Air south because of the movement
Earth west because of the darkness (meaning it is always dark west of the sun)

It is really what brings you into the state of understanding of the cycle of life and all things following that cycle.

[Dragony]

what i have been taught is that Elements are not only connected to compass directions and seasons of the year but also emotions
Earth- Grounded
Fire- Love
Water- Blanced
Air- Empty

in my honest opinion
Summer- Fire
Fall- Air
Winter- Water
Spring- Earth

[shadowx]

I dont get the compass-elements connection. What if i go to mars? Does magick still exist? Do the elements? Presumably you would answer yes, but there is no magnetic field on mars hence no compass directions, so then what?

I dont believe in strict elements at all, but i really dont understand that idea of connections.

[JuniperBerry]

I dont get the compass-elements connection. What if i go to mars? Does magick still exist? Do the elements? Presumably you would answer yes, but there is no magnetic field on mars hence no compass directions, so then what?

I dont believe in strict elements at all, but i really dont understand that idea of connections.

Well, first of all, there's nothing scientific about it. The idea of elementals is a watered down version of anthropomorphicism of nature dieties. As someone mentioned above, the direction of the elementals has nothing to do with a firm position on a compass but the position it's in in relation to the practitioner. In northern Europe, Great Britain for example, water is west because the expanse of the Atlantic is to the west, Earth is north because of the rising mountains, Fire is south because the of the warmer climates below and so on. If a person lived in Maine it would make more sense for them to call on the water from the east then from the west.

So let's look at the act of calling: This in itself shows that the practice is about asking for assistance from a power, and that magic is not an isolated act of manipulation by the practitioner alone. It seems to be the belief that the elements are not deified, but servile- almost as though they are animalistic properties with no intelligent desires of their own, but with a energy that can be harnessed. This idea most likely stems from the belief in land spirits; elves, landwights, fairies...mythical beings that hold a lower station than us.

The idea of elements having some sort of magic is also a result of Deities living in certain climes. Winter deities lived in the North, where snow and cool winds would be pleasing, Summer deities lived to the south. These lands of the Gods were considered magical, powerful, and one would be wont to call warmer air from the South when feeling chill. This is more an expression of asking the Summer Deity to appear and return then it is asking for the actual element to make it's mark. Gardner established this idea of calling the elements from his anthropological studies of various faiths, and from his supposed association with Old Dorothy.

There's also the mystical and philosophical sacredness of the building blocks in life that you find in more of the occult trads (Rosacrucian, Golden Dawn, Solomon). This is less about deity, or elements as beings, then it is about the Divine of all. These are paths that are more concerned with the One True Name of God, and tapping into It's ultimate power through theurgy than about nature spirits and faith. Plus, there's alchemey in which the basic four elements have both physical and spiritual transformative properties. Again, an influence on the ideal of the magical or manipulative properties of the basic four.

So, if you went to Mars, you could pick up a handful of soil and call on 'earth'. (That'd be about all you could call on.) But it's really about what you belief, how it would matter, what it would connect you with, then it is about some actual manipulative property or magnetic pull.

[Dragony]

I dont get the compass-elements connection. What if i go to mars? Does magick still exist? Do the elements? Presumably you would answer yes, but there is no magnetic field on mars hence no compass directions, so then what?

I dont believe in strict elements at all, but i really dont understand that idea of connections.

honestly shadow idk the answer to that im only relating what works for me and all three does but i presume that magick can coinside with planetary positions it has been proven that positions of the moons and planets does affect weather and actions on earth and if your good with magick you can affect peoples actions and the weather in my experience