Traditional Witchcraft vs Wicca?

[XxStarrySkiesxX]

Good Day Everyone!
I searched for this topic to be sure i'm not uneccessarily creating a new topic about something that's already here. I don't think I am but i'm new so maybe I did and if so I apologize
So anyways, I've read a couple entries online from practitioners of traditional witchcraft and they are sort of infering that wicca's differences from their traditions are not exactly good things. Again, their opinion not mine. The common themes of these posting are in my words: 1. Gardner created wicca in the 1950's and wicca is not based on any "old" religions . 2. Gardner was sort of a dick? 3. Wicca is good for the current rebellious ex-christian because of the idea of the "one" being essentially monotheism and with the three-fold rede being similar to the idea of hell and unrealistic because you can't create 3x energy from 1. 4. Calling on a melting pot of gods and goddesses from different parts of history is disrespectful.

Okay, so all of these things were said...and I would site them except for this is my own interp but i'll find the sites if need be.

They say all of these thing but wherever i'm reading I can't find anything about Traditional, and just claiming wicca is "new agey" and "historically inaccrurate" and made for the "rebellious ex-christian"

Now maybe this has potential to get heated, that being said, I don't really have an opinion...I want the opinion of others here. What do YOU think?

[SnowCat]

The points you enumerated may be true for some people. For me at least though, my involvement with what could very loosely very termed Wicca, predates my ability to read, never mind understanding any of the fuss about religious protocols. It's just something that's always been there, despite my being raised Catholic with a Mormon father. I imagine that Farner Enjoyed His notoriety, and some people may very well be hard line Gardnerists. I'm not one I found them.

SnowCat

[XxStarrySkiesxX]

So SnowCat,
You went on your path and then found out what it is? Just based on a feeling, not exactly related to anything Gardner said, kind of thing? I think I personally fall into that as well. I was almost..happier..before reading up on all the history.

[Xiao Rong]

Agreed with Snowcat. There is a lot of fuss about the history of Wicca, which is not extremely relevant to how people practice nowadays. There are some discussions on cultural appropriation (here's another great article), and those are important conversations to have. However, I think that the issue is not limited to only Wicca, and there are certainly ways to practice Wicca respectfully without appropriating. It's true that some who come to Wicca are teenagers looking for an alternative to Christianity, but I know many people who have been Wiccan for decades or longer, so I don't think that Wicca is merely a "passing phase".

I find that a better criteria of whether or not a religious or spiritual path fits is: "Does it help you to be a better person? Does it help you to live in this world and leave it better than you found it?" Many people find that Wicca helps them to connect their community, the gods/goddesses, and to nature, and that it brings them peace, fulfillment, and a moral grounding. If you feel that Wicca will do that for you, then great! If not, then find something else that will give that to you. That's why I feel the history of Wicca and Paganism is really largely immaterial to how I practice today.

[XxStarrySkiesxX]

Xiao Rong,
Really beautiful description, and helpful. Thank you. I don't know why the traditionalists that wrote these articles seem to oppose so much, while not really describing what they do instead ya know? I personally like the ancient "feel" of the pagan religions, because most of the earliest religions we know of were as far as i'm aware pantheistic and polytheistic..

[Siona]

Now maybe this has potential to get heated, that being said, I don't really have an opinion...I want the opinion of others here. What do YOU think?

Well, as someone who practices a form of traditional witchcraft (which is an umbrella term, really, and not one specific practice), I can agree with parts of what you've read. Like, Wicca may contain some old ideas, but in itself it is a new practice that Gardner made... it didn't exist before him. However, I don't think that's necessarily good or bad, it just is. I also don't agree with some of the beliefs/practices of Wicca (yes, such as the threefold law), but then, that's why I'm not a Wiccan. If others want to be Wiccan, that's their own choice, and there's nothing wrong with that, with Wicca in itself - but at the same time, nothing wrong with critiquing Wicca, or other paths, either. It can make for some thought-provoking stuff.

And of course, this issue actually goes both ways, there are a lot of Wiccans who are happy to insult and dismiss traditional witchcraft traditions, as well, or ignore our practices and just sweep everything under the idea of "Wicca is whatever you want it to be, so we're all Wiccans!" I have been told by multiple people that I am a bad witch for not following the Wiccan rede, because all witches have to do that. Or even that I am a dangerous witch for not following Wiccan ritual structure, not casting a circle, whatever else. I've had many people insist that I am actually a Wiccan, despite my own protests. I can even go down to the bookstore and pick up a few books on being a hedgewitch... and almost all of them will say that being a hedgewitch is just being a solitary "whatever you want" Wiccan. Which, no, it's really not.

So yeah, that can get really frustrating, and it is probably why a lot of traditional witches write about what separates them from Wicca, because a lot of people try to insist that there isn't a line there. That said, certainly not all of us end with that, and I can share some links if you're still having a hard time finding information.

[XxStarrySkiesxX]

Yes please on the links Siona! Thank you for all that!

[TwilightDancer]

Well said Siona! *applauds*

I've certainly met others on both side of the spectrum as well. Those that think every witch is wiccan no matter what. And those that think witches are lesser than wiccans because we don't "follow the rules".

As far as the threefold law goes: No, I don't believe it as its commonly known: what you send out will come back three times the one. However I believe whatever you put out into this world will affect you in three different ways. In mind, in body and in spirit.

Personally I would never claim the title Wiccan and that is not just because I believe that would be disrespectful to wiccans but because it would be disrespectful to myself. I am an eclectic witch and I'd prefer to keep it that way.


Blessed Be

[XxStarrySkiesxX]

TwilightDancer,
I enjoy that depiction of that law best!

[Xiao Rong]

TwilightDancer, I hadn't heard that interpretation of the Rule of Three before, and I really like it!

I never took the Rule of Three very literally, but in general I do like Wicca's ethical grounding, which isn't based on commandments ("Thou shalt not") but simply to think about the consequences and take responsibility.

[Seraphin]

TwilightDancer! You know what, I've given up on the idea of rule of three (not karma per se) a long time ago. I don't think I have any need of that in order to live morally and righteously. But now that you said that, I'm starting to think again that I do good things in this world, not simply for the sake of being human or for some cosmic reward or just for the pleasure of being kind, but for the sake of benefiting my mind, body and spirit! Very nice!

[Siona]

Here are the promised links, and a bit more.

This is a nice, quick article on the basic idea of traditional witchcraft. Also mentions a few examples of more specific paths under the traditional umbrella, which might help finding more details.
Another article from that site about Cochrane He was one of the bigger influences on the traditional witchcraft movement. His work spawned several traditions, and there's some links at the end which go deeper into those.
An article about hedgecraft, one form of traditional witchcraft.

Not specific articles, but a few blogs where you can see how a few different people who fall to the more traditional witch side of things practice.
https://forestdoor.wordpress.com/
http://rootandrock.blogspot.com/
http://sarahannelawless.com/blog/
http://v-v-f.blogspot.com/

Books, if you can find them. Some of them are stupid expensive in a lot of places, but maybe a library might have them?
The Roebuck in the Thicket, Jones & Cochrane
To Fly By Night, Veronica Cummer
A Deed Without a Name, Lee Morgan
The Resurrection of the Meadow, Robin Artisson
Cunning-Folk and Familiar Spirits, Emma Wilby
Popular Magic, Owen Davies

[Red Ember]

TwilightDancer, I really like your take on the threefold law. This law has always been something I struggle with, but I find your way of seeing this concept to be very helpful and something to think about.

Siona, thanks for sharing the links. I have to admit, although I have an interest in traditional witchcraft I have found it very difficult to find out much about it. In my experience it is far easier to learn and find out about Wicca then it is Traditional Witchcraft.

[TwilightDancer]

Believing this way makes the most sense to me psychologically and scientifically.
There have been hundreds of studies done on "thinking yourself sick". If you put negativity out into the world it's going to weigh heavy on your mind, most likely in the form of guilt. When you have a negative mindset like this it's going to put your body at risk for a weaker immune system and the combination can quite literally make you sick and depressed. This is going to hinder your spiritual growth.

Of course the reverse is true as well. Positive vibes can only serve to make us stronger.

Again, this is just my personal take on it. Feel free to disagree.
Either way I'm glad it was thought provoking.



Blessed Be

[XxStarrySkiesxX]

Thanks for the links Siona, I will be checking them out soon.
Thank you everyone else for your participation in this discussion!