No such thing as Christian Wicca

Discussion for and about Christian witches and pagans. How do you merge your two belief systems? Please be kind to Christian witches. I have come to believe that it is a very valid belief system.
AncientSideEffects

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by AncientSideEffects »

Wait, so saying wicca started in I believe 1972 is a slap in the face. In 1972 the supreme courts decided that with the following it had gained it was deemed a religion. Wicca originated centuries before. Your trying to say something is not possible but proving you don't know enough to say anything about it. Your posts are biased and obviously, pardon the expression its the only one I can think of, your a bible thumper. So your either hiding behind your beliefs or not acknowledging the truth of what you are.
User avatar
DPhoenix
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by DPhoenix »

AncientSideEffects wrote:Wait, so saying wicca started in I believe 1972 is a slap in the face. In 1972 the supreme courts decided that with the following it had gained it was deemed a religion. Wicca originated centuries before. Your trying to say something is not possible but proving you don't know enough to say anything about it. Your posts are biased and obviously, pardon the expression its the only one I can think of, your a bible thumper. So your either hiding behind your beliefs or not acknowledging the truth of what you are.
Gardner established it in the 1950's hun :)

That depends on your definition of Wicca. Wicca as we know it today (evolving from Gardner) is a modern revival of speculation on the old ways.

General 'witchcraft', more specifically shamanism and hereditary witches, have been around for centuries but even then most of their practices have evolved and changed over the centuries so it's not a pure form of the 'old ways'. Very few self proclaimed 'hereditary witches' are infact what they claim to be. The oral traditions of shamanism (more specifically Native American & African tribes) are more like their old ancesters then their European counterpart which was conquered by kings & the Roman Catholic Church so integration of beliefs was necessary for the survival of their Craft (and of their very lives).

In the end it's semantics really and both sides could make strong points (though their definitions vary slightly so by their own definitions neither side is wrong). But I would like to say that at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion whether you believe it or not. So let's agree to disagree agreeably? :D
Burn to ash we must
Purification by fire
To rise again new -Wanna be friends on face book? Add me Dorothy Phoenix
AncientSideEffects

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by AncientSideEffects »

DPhoenix wrote:
AncientSideEffects wrote:Wait, so saying wicca started in I believe 1972 is a slap in the face. In 1972 the supreme courts decided that with the following it had gained it was deemed a religion. Wicca originated centuries before. Your trying to say something is not possible but proving you don't know enough to say anything about it. Your posts are biased and obviously, pardon the expression its the only one I can think of, your a bible thumper. So your either hiding behind your beliefs or not acknowledging the truth of what you are.
Gardner established it in the 1950's hun :)

That depends on your definition of Wicca. Wicca as we know it today (evolving from Gardner) is a modern revival of speculation on the old ways.

General 'witchcraft', more specifically shamanism and hereditary witches, have been around for centuries but even then most of their practices have evolved and changed over the centuries so it's not a pure form of the 'old ways'. Very few self proclaimed 'hereditary witches' are infact what they claim to be. The oral traditions of shamanism (more specifically Native American & African tribes) are more like their old ancesters then their European counterpart which was conquered by kings & the Roman Catholic Church so integration of beliefs was necessary for the survival of their Craft (and of their very lives).

In the end it's semantics really and both sides could make strong points (though their definitions vary slightly so by their own definitions neither side is wrong). But I would like to say that at the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinion whether you believe it or not. So let's agree to disagree agreeably? :D

Oops, sorry about the year, read about it a while ago. Dates come and go so it is what it is.
I agree to disagree. Thats why all religions have issues blending. Everyone believes something different.
One Witchy Mom

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by One Witchy Mom »

AncientSideEffects wrote:Wait, so saying wicca started in I believe 1972 is a slap in the face. In 1972 the supreme courts decided that with the following it had gained it was deemed a religion. Wicca originated centuries before. Your trying to say something is not possible but proving you don't know enough to say anything about it. Your posts are biased and obviously, pardon the expression its the only one I can think of, your a bible thumper. So your either hiding behind your beliefs or not acknowledging the truth of what you are.
You are completely and totally in error in most the things you say, and you do not read, your are seeing what you want to and what you assume, not what is said.

It is a slap in the face to those who are Wiccan that follow that faith by way of training, tradition, initiation , and study for people without that study and real world experience to simply get a flight of fancy and deem themselves Wiccan. Just as would be for a person to say the Buddhist without the training, study, and experience, or to say your Christian because a few aspects of the faith appeal to you.

I am far from being a Bible thumper, what I am is someone who knows a little something about Hebrew and Greek and the original meanings, which you appear to be far removed from. Any Scripture I have stated here were in an effort to debunk the modern and KJV of translations which leave a lot to be desired from the original text regarding magic and witchs. More then statement of opinions I support my statements with evidence, I can see where this may an issue with you, you seem to only give opinions not based in fact or reference. If simply knowing about the origins of a book makes you a thumper, then I guess I am a Bible thumper, a Book of the Dead thumper, a Torah Thumper, a Koran Thumper, a Leland Thumper ect.

As for knowledge of Witchcraft and Wicca, again it is you seems very ill informed. Every system today is reconstructed from what little we actually know about Ancient Pagans. In fact, ancient Pagan, did not even have gods and goddess they simply worshipped nature until about 20,000 BC then we see the god of hunt begin to emerge. The history of Wicca is the growth of the Neopagan religion of Wicca and its connections to witchcraft. Wicca originated in the early twentieth century, among covens in England who were basing their religious beliefs up what they read of the historical Witch-Cult and the writings of Margaret Murray (1939). Wicca became a religion founded in the 1952 founded Gerald Gardner and out of the the New Forest coven . Gardner's form of Wicca, the Gardnerian tradition, was spread by him and High Priestesses' Doreen Valiente, Patricia Crowther and Eleanor Bone in thee UK, Buckland is credited for brining it to America In the 1970s, and giving rise the Solitary practice movement with the "Big Blue Book" In the USA, the court case of Dettmer v. Landon in 1986 established that Wicca was a religion under the eyes of the law.

Further I never said it was possible, just not prudent. If someone wants call themselves a Christian Wicca have at it, however it does make it historically or technically correct. I am fully aware of my beliefs, and they are that of expressing my faith through the art of The Craft or witchcraft, I am not Wiccan , nor have any desire to be, for me Gardner stole so much form Charles Leland's Broken Bough it makes me nauseated. Worse if people buy into it. Is it pseudo-history. It is Neo-Paganism at best and a farce at worst. Witchcraft is not neo-pagan it is handed down via families, its primal or learned through experimentation,inner knowing, and study. Wicca is neo-pagan is a learned system, which is fine, but you still have to do the time in Year and a Day to call yourself Wiccan, or at very least be turning the year and a day cycle.

Ancient, by all your posts, and misinformation and trying so hard to appear that you know what your talking when you have very little accurate information, you are the one who comes across like you don't know anything about any of it, like your a person who reads a lot has little real world experiences with it and does not question the source.

**Thumps you over the head with Big Blue Book** :evilwitch:
AncientSideEffects

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by AncientSideEffects »

One Witchy Mom wrote:
AncientSideEffects wrote:Wait, so saying wicca started in I believe 1972 is a slap in the face. In 1972 the supreme courts decided that with the following it had gained it was deemed a religion. Wicca originated centuries before. Your trying to say something is not possible but proving you don't know enough to say anything about it. Your posts are biased and obviously, pardon the expression its the only one I can think of, you're a bible thumper. So your either hiding behind your beliefs or not acknowledging the truth of what you are.
You are completely and totally in error in most the things you say, and you do not read, your are seeing what you want to and what you assume, not what is said.

It is a slap in the face to those who are Wiccan that follow that faith by way of training, tradition, initiation , and study for people without that study and real world experience to simply get a flight of fancy and deem themselves Wiccan. Just as would be for a person to say the Buddhist without the training, study, and experience, or to say your Christian because a few aspects of the faith appeal to you.

I am far from being a Bible thumper, what I am is someone who knows a little something about Hebrew and Greek and the original meanings, which you appear to be far removed from. Any Scripture I have stated here were in an effort to debunk the modern and KJV of translations which leave a lot to be desired from the original text regarding magic and witchs. More then statement of opinions I support my statements with evidence, I can see where this may an issue with you, you seem to only give opinions not based in fact or reference. If simply knowing about the origins of a book makes you a thumper, then I guess I am a Bible thumper, a Book of the Dead thumper, a Torah Thumper, a Koran Thumper, a Leland Thumper ect.

As for knowledge of Witchcraft and Wicca, again it is you seems very ill informed. Every system today is reconstructed from what little we actually know about Ancient Pagans. In fact, ancient Pagan, did not even have gods and goddess they simply worshipped nature until about 20,000 BC then we see the god of hunt begin to emerge. The history of Wicca is the growth of the Neopagan religion of Wicca and its connections to witchcraft. Wicca originated in the early twentieth century, among covens in England who were basing their religious beliefs up what they read of the historical Witch-Cult and the writings of Margaret Murray (1939). Wicca became a religion founded in the 1952 founded Gerald Gardner and out of the the New Forest coven . Gardner's form of Wicca, the Gardnerian tradition, was spread by him and High Priestesses' Doreen Valiente, Patricia Crowther and Eleanor Bone in thee UK, Buckland is credited for brining it to America In the 1970s, and giving rise the Solitary practice movement with the "Big Blue Book" In the USA, the court case of Dettmer v. Landon in 1986 established that Wicca was a religion under the eyes of the law.

Further I never said it was possible, just not prudent. If someone wants call themselves a Christian Wicca have at it, however it does make it historically or technically correct. I am fully aware of my beliefs, and they are that of expressing my faith through the art of The Craft or witchcraft, I am not Wiccan , nor have any desire to be, for me Gardner stole so much form Charles Leland's Broken Bough it makes me nauseated. Worse if people buy into it. Is it pseudo-history. It is Neo-Paganism at best and a farce at worst. Witchcraft is not neo-pagan it is handed down via families, it primal or learned through experimentation,inner knowing, and study. Wicca is neo-pagan is a learned system, which is fine, but you still have to do the time in Year and a Day to call your Wiccan, or at very least be turning the year and a day cycle.

Ancient, by all your posts, and misinformation and trying so hard to appear that you know what your talking when you have very little accurate information, you are the one who comes across like you don't know anything about any of it, like your a person who reads a lot has little real world experiences with it and does not question the source.

**Thumps you over the head with Big Blue Book** :evilwitch:
You know what, your right. I'll feed your ego. Your right and I'm wrong. Considering what you say is your interpretation of the it as is what I read. Maybe you should do some research and see what you find instead of blindly following what you read. I only stated all misinformation within this so called book. And if the translation is bad, then sue NKJV translators as that's there problem. Trying to show someone up with useless knowledge like that of Latin or Hebrew, both languages of Christianity and of no real use to anyone but those who USE it. By the way, if you want someone to learn something, don't post what your quoting. People like myself tend to ignore it. What's useful is having them read it and see what they come up with. Again the way you read it is your interpretation, not mine.
User avatar
Xiao Rong
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3109
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:58 am
Gender: Female
Location: New England

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by Xiao Rong »

Alrighty ... I'm noticing that you two (AncientSideEffects and One Witchy Mom) have been arguing for quite a while now, and it's starting to sound pretty heated, with some ad hominem attacks on both sides ... I would like to remind you both that you can hash out your differences in beliefs and opinions while remaining respectful of each other.
~ Xiao Rong ~ 小蓉 ~ Little Lotus ~
User avatar
Xiao Rong
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3109
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:58 am
Gender: Female
Location: New England

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by Xiao Rong »

I'm removing the rest of the posts from this thread because flinging insults is not relevant to this topic. AncientSideEffects and One Witchy Mom, if you care to try to resolve your differences, you can continue your discussion in the Conflict Resolution forum or via PM. But this thread is for respectful discussion of the intersection of Wicca and Christianity only. Any irrelevant posts involving insulting other members are going to be deleted.

Anyone else who wants to talk about Christian Wicca - carry on!
~ Xiao Rong ~ 小蓉 ~ Little Lotus ~
User avatar
SnowCat
Banned Member
Posts: 4744
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:29 am
Gender: Female
Location: The Spirals

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by SnowCat »

Well, Gardener started his particular brand of Wicca. As far as the rest of it, I don't agree. There are different subsets of both Catholicism and Mormonism, but that doesn't mean any one subset is more or less valid than the others. I mention these two, because I grew up Catholic with Mormon influences.

I know that some practitioners argue that one is not truly a witch unless initiated into a coven. I disagree with that. I've been a witch for as long as I can remember. I just didn't realize it until I was in my teens. I follow an eclectic path. If someone chooses to say that it isn't truly Wicca, well go ahead. I'm not going to flagellate a deceased equine over labels.

Frosty
Daughter of Sekhmet
User avatar
DPhoenix
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by DPhoenix »

SnowCat wrote:I'm not going to flagellate a deceased equine over labels.
Then I will! :P

Image
Burn to ash we must
Purification by fire
To rise again new -Wanna be friends on face book? Add me Dorothy Phoenix
One Witchy Mom

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by One Witchy Mom »

" know that some practitioners argue that one is not truly a witch unless initiated into a coven. I disagree with that. I've been a witch for as long as I can remember. I just didn't realize it until I was in my teens. I follow an eclectic path. If someone chooses to say that it isn't truly Wicca, well go ahead. I'm not going to flagellate a deceased equine over labels."

Agreed, however one cannot be Wiccan with out following the structures of that system. One can be a Christian and a Witch , however to say you are Wiccan when you know nothing of the Wiccan religion, nor have done your training and initiations, is not so. Wicca is religion, That would be like someone saying they are Catholic with out being baptized and confirmed Catholic.

Wiccan and Witch are not the same. A Witch can come in may ways, a Wiccan is one who follows the Wiccan system , traditions, and philosophy. A person would not attend a public Mass and suddenly be Catholic.
User avatar
SnowCat
Banned Member
Posts: 4744
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:29 am
Gender: Female
Location: The Spirals

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by SnowCat »

shrug
Daughter of Sekhmet
User avatar
Mazu Sakura
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:02 pm
Gender: Female
Location: USA, NC, Perquimans County, Hertford

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by Mazu Sakura »

lilmizsunshine727 wrote:I am not Christian, but I agree with Miss RNG and Whitefire. No one should be harassed or even given a hard time about their religion. Thea Sabin, a Wiccan author, states clearly that Wiccans do not hate anyone from any other religion, nor do they try to convert them. She also says Wicca is a wonderful religion in that you can practice it and any other religion as well. I realize that people are allowed their opinions, but no one should feel threatened by anyone else because of how they feel about a topic.

When I posted this topic, This was not my goal.

My goal was to tell you that MY VIEW, Personally, was that christian wicca was wrong
The tears we cry are the scars we bear.
May we bear them with pride, for they tell the story of who we are and where we have been.
BLESSED BE!
User avatar
Mazu Sakura
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:02 pm
Gender: Female
Location: USA, NC, Perquimans County, Hertford

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by Mazu Sakura »

Xiao Rong wrote:I'm removing the rest of the posts from this thread because flinging insults is not relevant to this topic. AncientSideEffects and One Witchy Mom, if you care to try to resolve your differences, you can continue your discussion in the Conflict Resolution forum or via PM. But this thread is for respectful discussion of the intersection of Wicca and Christianity only. Any irrelevant posts involving insulting other members are going to be deleted.

Anyone else who wants to talk about Christian Wicca - carry on!
Thank you!
The tears we cry are the scars we bear.
May we bear them with pride, for they tell the story of who we are and where we have been.
BLESSED BE!
kay 32

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by kay 32 »

Well for what it's worth. I seem to think that the roots of Wicca predate the Bible and Christianity by thousands of years
I also seem to think that the Christian faith took may of it's traditional and seasonal holidays from the Pagan / Wiccan calendar. I also see many references made to quotations from the bible here and I seem to think that King James 1st had the bible re written in favour of the Christians making witchcraft illegal. Many witches of the day in those times were usually women in tune with the rhythm of life and nature. They were considered wise and important people. To take this power away from them and transfer it to the male clergy was the reason or part of the reason for the witch hunts and persecution. I'll not go into my own experiences with my early life and "Christianity" but the way I see it I'm Wiccan and Wiccan and grateful that I am. I cant and don't wish to mix the two
Thank you
K
Vigdisdotter
Banned Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:40 pm
Gender: Female
Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Contact:

Re: No such thing as Christian Wicca

Post by Vigdisdotter »

kay 32 wrote:Well for what it's worth. I seem to think that the roots of Wicca predate the Bible and Christianity by thousands of years
Why does that matter? You still have to very different theologies that have contracting ideas, which is the crux of the issue here.

To blend them, you'd first have to deal with difference and one or both sides would have to change to make it workable. At that point, what you have is no longer Christian or Wiccan, but something new that uses both as source material in becoming it's own thing.

Now if you want to be a Christian Witch, that IS doable since instead of two theologies you're dealing with a theology and a skill set.
Post Reply

Return to “Christian Witchcraft”