Paganism & Science

[Soul]

Hello again!
Which of the main forums would you suggest for my asking Pagan's views about Science? I'm interested in how some people believe in Science and Paganism, or even Science with Witchcraft. Thanks in advance!
Peace and Blessed Be,
Soul

[Xiao Rong]

Hmm, I think we've had a few threads here and there discussing Paganism and Science; they've been a little scattered. You can either use this thread or we can start a new one. I might be inclined to stick it in the FAQ forum because it's quite a common subject!

[Soul]

Hmm, I think we've had a few threads here and there discussing Paganism and Science; they've been a little scattered. You can either use this thread or we can start a new one. I might be inclined to stick it in the FAQ forum because it's quite a common subject!

Xiao,

Thanks for replying! I sort of wanted to open up a discussion and gain perspective from others here who consider themselves Pagan, about how they combine scientific understanding with Pagan spirituality -- and particularly in practicing witchcraft. I have a friend who is a witch and she dearly loves Science (as do I). I could start by asking science-oriented Pagans to share their views about "energies" and how that some Pagans view deities as energies rather than actual supernatural beings. (My view is that they are energies: psychological-spiritual-sociological and perhaps other types of energies.)

And I apologize if I'm using the term "Pagan" in too general a manner.

Xiao, I rely on your discernment as to where the best place is for such a thread. I am enthused about connecting with other science-oriented Pagans. (I do consider myself "Pagan" at least in heart and soul, even though I don't follow any particular path or practice a specific discipline, at present.)

Thanks again!
Peace and Blessed Be,
Soul

[Xiao Rong]

Well, I am the daughter of two (atheist) scientists, so I originally identified strongly as a Naturalistic Pagan, which is a path that is inspired by Pagan traditions but also primarily emphasizes natural, not supernatural, causes, and generally goes with the best of what the scientific method can offer. So I generally see no conflict between, say, the Big Bang or evolution and my beliefs. As the website states,

While we find little evidence to support most of the metaphysical claims made for deities and magic, we find plenty of evidence for the capacity of Pagan myth, meditation, and ritual to affect psychology. That is why we find Pagan ways powerful. By shaping human minds, they motivate change through human hands.

Although I am recently starting to explore more about deities and the more metaphysical, which makes things a little more confusing. For now, I mostly operate with uncertainty. For instance, with deities, I can say with 100% certainty that they are important metaphorical, poetic, or psychological phenomena. I think there is some possibility that they have a life/intelligence/consciousness of their own, and a much smaller possibility that they are real, literal beings that exist in the way that the Christian God exists ("hard polytheist"). I have little experience with them in the hard polytheist sense (I'll tell you when I see otherwise), but I know I can work with them in a metaphorical, poetic, or psychological sense, and some personal experience leads me to believe I can have a personal relationship with them. For me, it's all about being able to hold and appreciate multiple competing truths in my head at the same time.

I will say, though, that I prefer not to look too hard for scientific explanations of metaphysical truth and magic. Generally, I think by definition magic is not 100% knowable; I have experience that magic works and I trust my experience. Unfortunately I have seen way too many bad scientific explanations for magic (throwing around fancy words like "quantum physics" is one such sign
) by people who aren't themselves scientists and use the TedX, TL;DR version of science to explain magic. In addition to just being plain wrong, it also cheapens spiritual experiences by insisting that the only "valid" spiritual experiences have scientific explanations, when "mythical and mystical truth is just as real and just as important as literal truth" all along. So when I talk about "energy", I generally am talking about something totally different from what science considers "energy", and I don't expect them to follow the same rules or laws. I don't conflate the two.

This isn't to say that some scientific theories aren't powerful metaphors and help us understand magic and life better (I am quite fond of chaos theory myself), but it's a leap to say that the metaphor and the object of comparison are one and the same. One great blog post on the subject says:

So we can continue to have plant spirits and totems, and gods of the harvest and field. There’s nothing wrong with that. But let’s not use half-arsed studies about “talking plants” to try to prove that the spirits of nature paganism are more real than any other. Better to have no proof and only have our spirituality be true in our hearts, than to root our proof on a crumbling cliffside, only to have the tree fall over in the end.

[Nightwatcher]

To me, Science is simply another way to view the world. To me it's not the "end all" but it is valuable. For me, reality is incredibly complex with many layers and hidden truths. Religion, faith, magic, morals, science... they are all simply different lenses to see the same reality. That's why when people argue about it, I get irritated. The various lenses are all valuable and important to try and understand what we call "reality" as fully as we can and can comprehend. Sometimes they intersect and touch and sometimes they don't. And that's okay.

Not sure how many people see it that way like I do though...