The 5 Moon Tides

General questions and conversations about astrology.
Post Reply
Proudmoore

The 5 Moon Tides

Post by Proudmoore »

The 5 Moon Tides

The Moon's gravity affects everything on Earth. It calls not only the waters but the very Earth.
Even though the Moon is so much smaller than the Sun, it is much closer to us. So it exerts over twice the gravitational force on the Earth than does the Sun.

And these lunar influences are a vital factor in the Earth's ability to support life.

Science lists 4 Moon-tides. I include one that science prefers to overlook, no matter how unscientifically: the 5th Moon-tide. . . the tidal pull on Spirit.

Let's look at the five kinds of Moon-tides that occur every day, twice a day.


Ocean Tides


This is the most commonly understood of the 5 Moon-tides. The Moon's tidal pull on the waters of our world is completely obvious.
First, some basic facts about tides. There are two tides every day, corresponding roughly to when the Moon is overhead and when it is on the opposite side of the planet. As it travels around the Earth, the oceans move with it. More or less.

In point of fact, the tides' movement doesn't follow the moon exactly but a pattern of resonance that the Moon has established by circling the Earth for a long time.

Still, the most extreme tides occur around the Full Moon and the New Moon. These are called spring tides. Not because of any relation to the season, but from the Welsh word that means "to bulge". . . springan.

Also, the orbit of the Moon isn't a perfect circle. Sometimes it is closer, and sometimes farther away. Obviously, when the Moon is near the Earth, it affects the tides most strongly.

The Sun also affects the ocean's tides, although less than the Moon. So its position, and the Earth's proximity, can increase or diminish the height of the tides.


Earth Tides


Did you know that the Moon has a tide that pulls the crust of the Earth towards itself?
This is called the earth tide.

The surface of our planet actually rises between 4 to 12 inches every day when the Moon is above the horizon, and recedes when the Moon sets.

Imagine how strong a force the Moon must exert, to pull the very mountains and land masses toward it!


Fire Tides


Lunar tides also affect the fiery molten core of the earth, causing it to surge and recede just like ocean tides.
This appears to be a major contributing cause of earthquakes.

Air Tides


There is still another medium that the Moon affects. This is the body of air that surrounds our planet.
The pocket of air around the Earth reaches up about 60 miles. It weighs an incredible five million billion tons. This is equivalent to 33 feet of water flowing over the surface of the Earth.

The Moon has a tide affect in this air mass, changing the height or thickness of the atmosphere every day. When it is overhead, the Moon's gravity pulls the atmosphere toward itself, sometimes by as much as 25%. This means that in certain phases of the Moon, the atmosphere bulges out an extra 15 miles.

This creates higher pressure where the Moon is, and lower pressure where it is not. Then when the Moon sinks below the horizon, the atmosphere again grows more compact.

This is a major force in affecting weather. Weather is, in fact, what happens when the atmosphere is pulled around the planet by the Moon.

There is evidence that almost every cyclone, tornado, volcanic eruption, and earthquake is associated with a significant moon position. Even thunderstorms seem to be created when the Moon is in a certain phase and position.

Yet, fantastically, the Moon's tides are not taken into consideration in weather forecasting. Maybe this is why the forecasts are so often wrong. wicca-spirituality-winking_witch

In comparison, folklore has much to say about how the Moon affects the weather.

So why is the Moon so effectively ignored in modern weather forecasting? According to Ken Ring, author of Predicting the Weather by the Moon . . .

In their all-out zeal to rewrite our universe so history would be more palatable, 17th century theologians made as much distance as they could between Christian society and that symbol of everything pagan; the Moon.
There was no room for the Christian god in the old moon-oriented science, which dictated that climate and weather were cyclically predictable, and the 'hand of God' was a non-issue.

Blood Tides


There is a last, and still contentious, Moon-tide. The effect of the Moon's tides on living beings.
It is surprising that there is so vehement a rejection of this idea in scientific circles. Considering the massive documented effect that the Moon has on every system in our planet, it seems like simple hubris to assert that it doesn't affect us.

Perhaps this can be explained in terms of bigotry. There are certain taboo subjects in science, which puts them outside the purview of rational investigation . . . despite all supporting evidence.

And on a micro-scale there is plenty of evidence of the Moon's tidal effect on living organisms.

Reproduction

The most noticeable (to humans) is the monthly Moon-tide in the endocrine system of half the human inhabitants of this planet - the 28 day menstrual cycle. The very word menses derives from the word moon.
Menstruation is triggered by the Moon. The menstrual cycle most often peaks on the evening before the New Moon. This cycle is interrupted by the prevalence of electric lighting, though, so women today are less likely to notice the correlation than their foremothers were.

There are plenty of other effects of the Moon on reproduction. More births occur just after the Full Moon, with few at the new Moon.

Perhaps the Moon-tide affects more than menstrual blood? Haemorrhaging is well-known to increase at the Full Moon.

The phases of the Moon affect the cycle of growing things, the movement of animals, the migration of birds, and the breeding season of everything from deer to coral.

Mental & Emotional Balance

And then there are the "emotional moon-tides." Lunacy was a legal defense in 19th century Britain, when it was seen as an unstable mental condition brought about by the Full Moon.
There is a clear association of suicide, mental illness, epileptic seizures, violent crimes, and accidents with the period of the Full Moon. Even animals are affected, as perceptive vets and animal trainers attest.

As Ken Ring puts it,

Except for a small solar pull on things, all tides are caused by the moon, which generally we all take for granted as having little influence on anything except beaches and poets.
But obviously it affects much more than that. The 5 Moon-tides affect literally everything on Earth.

Sources:
http://www.wicca-spirituality.com/moon-tides.html
http://www.scienceclarified.com/Ma-Mu/Moon.html
http://www.paganspath.com/magik/moonphas.htm
http://www.wishbonix.com/moon-phases-for-magic-spells/
User avatar
Siona
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:54 pm
Gender: Non-binary
Location: NH, USA

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by Siona »

Proudmoore wrote:It is surprising that there is so vehement a rejection of this idea in scientific circles. . . . despite all supporting evidence.
Alright, I guess I'm about to be ~that person~ or whatever, but that's because there isn't actually a whole lot of supporting evidence to a lot of these claims. There are all these ideas that the ER is busier, that people bleed more during surgery, childbirth is higher, death is higher, etc, during the full moon... but whenever they've actually done a scientific study it just doesn't show those results. The 'evidence' tends to be primarily anecdotal, which just doesn't mean anything if it doesn't match up to actual statistics.

As an example, here's a part of an article that links to several studies looking at the claim that the moon affects childbirth (and some also dealt with conception and even death rates).
User avatar
SnowCat
Banned Member
Posts: 4744
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:29 am
Gender: Female
Location: The Spirals

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by SnowCat »

I've worked in long term care and in hospitals. I've seen things consistently get crazier when the moon is full.

Snow
Daughter of Sekhmet
User avatar
Siona
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:54 pm
Gender: Non-binary
Location: NH, USA

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by Siona »

Again, that's the anecdote that's always passed around, but there doesn't seem to be numbers to back that up. Here's one study showing what I mean. In their conclusion they recommend studying other areas, but many others have, including a wide study looking at some 150,000 different hospitals, and there just wasn't any solid link there. (The myth tends to persist as a form of confirmation bias -I believe the other article I linked goes into that a bit more.)

There is also the issue that, even if the numbers were there, that correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation. An example of that is that some research has actually found that there is a rise in dog emergencies around the full moon. Is the full moon affecting dogs in some way... or are more people just out and about walking their dogs and such because the full moon often makes it bright enough to do so? The study itself doesn't say, as it's just looking at the numbers. It's also possible a wider study would show no strong pattern there, either.

I mean, really, I'm not saying that there's no way the moon has any effect on humans at all, but the truth is so many of the common myths just don't have evidence supporting them. The claim that the OP makes, that scientists and the like are just not rationally investigating these subjects, really just isn't true. (Unless the implication is that scientists are just faking these studies...)
User avatar
SnowCat
Banned Member
Posts: 4744
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:29 am
Gender: Female
Location: The Spirals

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by SnowCat »

If you want to consider it anecdotal, I certainly can't stop you. I'm just speaking from the point of view of having seen it first hand. But what do I know?

Snow
Daughter of Sekhmet
User avatar
Siona
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:54 pm
Gender: Non-binary
Location: NH, USA

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by Siona »

SnowCat wrote:If you want to consider it anecdotal, I certainly can't stop you. I'm just speaking from the point of view of having seen it first hand.
Er, but that's literally what anecdotal evidence is. I'm not saying that to insult you, or even to discredit your personal experiences, it's just that's very much the definition of anecdotal evidence. It's totally possible that things were truly more hectic for you during the full moon, as anecdotal doesn't have to mean false. However, again, it is a common claim that just doesn't have any larger support to it to indicate that it is truly some widespread occurrence. There probably are some hospitals where things are more hectic around the full moon, it makes sense on just chance alone, but if it were actually because of the moon itself this would be very the case everywhere, and statistically that's just not what happens.
User avatar
SnowCat
Banned Member
Posts: 4744
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:29 am
Gender: Female
Location: The Spirals

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by SnowCat »

Do the statistics tell you that hospital administrators rewrite numbers to make themselves look better and increase their bonuses? That happens.

Snow
Daughter of Sekhmet
User avatar
Siona
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:54 pm
Gender: Non-binary
Location: NH, USA

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by Siona »

These are studies which have been done in multiple countries. I have looked at studies done in the US, in Canada, in Iran, in Australia, and in the UK. So unless multiple hospitals (thousands, or more in some cases) in each of these different countries, with their different systems of healthcare, etc, have all altered their numbers in exactly the same way, then I would say that's not really had a large effect on these studies. I mean is it possible? I guess. Doesn't it seem pretty unlikely, though?
User avatar
SnowCat
Banned Member
Posts: 4744
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:29 am
Gender: Female
Location: The Spirals

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by SnowCat »

If it makes you feel better to be right, then knock yourself out.

Snow
Daughter of Sekhmet
User avatar
SnowCat
Banned Member
Posts: 4744
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:29 am
Gender: Female
Location: The Spirals

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by SnowCat »

So, Proudmoore, I know that the United States government has done many studies on various aspects of the Earth's atmosphere. The one I heard about the most, was listening to atmospheric noise. I never did get to ask exactly what atmospheric noise was being listened for. I do know that some of it involved weather satellites. Not sure if that has any bearing on your tide ideas, but I thought I'd throw it in there.

Snow
Daughter of Sekhmet
User avatar
Siona
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:54 pm
Gender: Non-binary
Location: NH, USA

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by Siona »

SnowCat wrote:If it makes you feel better to be right, then knock yourself out.
Wow. That's quite the thing to assume about someone you're having a discussion with when it could equally apply to yourself. :| I mean, we're both in disagreement, I'm not going to assume that you're sticking to your stance just for the sake of wanting to be right, so I'd appreciate the same in return.

Regardless, to the thread in general, if someone else happens to know of a scientific study that disproves something I've said, by all means I'd be happy to see it, until then I guess that's all to be said.
User avatar
Mr Crowley
Banned Member
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:38 pm
Gender: Male
Location: The United States of America

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by Mr Crowley »

Instead of why would it, I rather say why wouldn't it?

First of all, I'm a weather geek, became one when I was an old teenager, when hurricane Agnes hit the mideast coast. We were in the eye, very-berry impressed!

I can see the light, whereby this amount of force on the atmosphere most certainly has affects on weather; in fact, one would have to have ZERO understanding on weather to say it doesn't. The problem: weather is too fluid and too quick to predict weather on slowpoke moon movement.

It's too many words to explain because I would have to explain how weather works/changes, so let's use logic to show the facts.

In defense of tanked forecasts, micro nuances--that no one can predict--makes huge difference. The people who call meteroligists idiots are the idiots because the idiots criticize in an area of which they don't have a clue! Everytime I corner one of these people, I ask them some of the most basic questions, they have ZERO understanding how/why weather works.

Shuts'em up every time!

Why the moon's phase isn't attached to weather, as for as forecast: It's big money, the more accurate, the bigger the money. Contrary to popular belief, meteroligists do know what they are doing. In the quest for the unknown, atmospheric pressure is a huge player in weather, so if the moon's affect could be corellated with weather, that would be the money-winning formula. Remember, the more accurate the forecast, the more money to be made.

****

"The incidence of crimes reported to three police stations in different towns (one rural, one urban, one industrial) was studied to see if it varied with the day of the lunar cycle. The period of the study covered 1978-82. The incidence of crimes committed on full moon days was much higher than on all other days"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1444800/

sorry for the copy paste caps
"THERE IS MORE POLICE ACTIVITY INVOLVING BREAKING AND ENTERING DURING A FULL MOON, SUGGESTING THAT THE MOONLIGHT GIVES AN OFFENDER THE LIGHT NECESSARY TO BREAK AND ENTER."
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/ ... x?ID=61880

Doesn't "suggesting" throw facts out the window? Being a night person in my youth, I don't buy into the full moon light. For at least 5 days on either side, that amount of +- light doesn't make enough difference in visibility. There has to be other night people who can verify this fact.

Also, how about cloud cover on full moons, tanking the high visibility myth? Maybe full moons gather clouds?

As for hospitals: Snow said, "I'm just speaking from the point of view of having seen it first hand. But what do I know?"

A lot!

I give first-hand lots more credit, than one size fits all.

You can have the same daily numbers and +-, but that doesn't reflect the work load's intensity. All it is: number of people. There is no reflection on what type of medical issues. If looked at the each visit on its own merits--this many stabbings, this many rapes, this many split-open heads, this many cases of the sniffles--it could shift from preponderance of evidence to beyond a reasonable doubt, making it a fact.

Let's run with a daily count of appendicitis. Would moon phase corelate with daily counts of appendicitis?

As for firsthand, I feel zero affect from moon cycles, at least that's my personal perception. But that only means that I'm exempt from latent affect, nothing to do with moon phase and how it does/doesn't affect others.
User avatar
Firebird
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8213
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 12:03 am
Gender: Female
Location: So. Cal.

Re: The 5 Moon Tides

Post by Firebird »

I found this study,
https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/moon.html
that would suggest some incidents occur on or near the dark of the moon. But the majority of study reveals no changes. And it's a long one.
I have no doubt that the moon works upon the fluids of the human body especially during a woman's menses'. I also read a study about veterinarians noticing an uptick in visits on days before and after a full moon, saying it was likely because there was more light for an animal to be out and wandering around thereby more likely to get into trouble...but one could say the same for some humans!
Seems the really dangerous days are Friday Saturday, Halloween, New years and Thanksgiving. Which in my mind are likely associated with a bit too much party.
And as I understand forecasting weather by moon relies heavily on the direction the crescent and the typical patterns for weather in any given region.
Like Horns up, are in the winter, cold time! Hadn't heard it to make an atmospheric bulge that would contribute one way or another. Would be interesting to look for data on that.
BB, FF
“There are things known and things unknown and in between are the Doors.”
― Jim Morrison
“All I have seen teaches me to trust the Creator for all I have not seen.”
― RWEmerson
:mrgreen:
Post Reply

Return to “Astrology and Zodiac”