What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Discussion of Reincarnation, Afterlife, Life-Between-Lives (LBL)...
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by Seraphin »

HopefulChild wrote:It is a simple distinction.

I just feel that it has significant and far reaching implications when there is a distinction made between a human spirit and an animal spirit. i see humans as animals.

I apologize if I wasn't clear that I was literally discussing animals. I hold the view that the tree of life is literally a family tree. I don't think I could look at my human family tree and begin to pick and choose which relatives are beneath me or have a different kind of soul than the one I have.

That is why I feel it is arrogant. And I don't intend the word arrogant to have any insult, It's just a state of consideration.
Yep, I get it.
I don't believe that either. In doing magic I don't feel my responsibility is to the cosmos. My decisions and actions will affect my soul. And that is a lesson or understanding that each person needs to take seriously in my opinion. But I don't think there is a form of judgement or measurement after we move into the next phase.

Intentional harm and cruelty can't be good for you. The evidence and historical precedent is overwhelmingly in favor of this. Cruelty to yourself and others affects your brain patterns, changes your thinking and so on.
I see and this is where we differ because I believe all our actions (mundane and magickal) affect not just my habits, values and destiny but also the different planes and the cosmos. Perhaps an analogy may illustrate the concept of correspondence: A person is hungry and weak. He needs something to eat. To get them, he must perform certain actions. He goes to the fridge, opens the door, takes out the milk a food, closes the fridge, takes a plate, put some food in his plate, take a spoonful of that food, lifts it to his lips, opens his mouth, bites and swallows.

Most of these actions are crucial to achieve desired purpose and so is the order in which they're performed. Opening a different door, getting something inside it and raising it to his mouth may result in his swallowing poison instead of food. Doing everything correctly and in the proper order with proper tool, but neglecting to bite will just make him choke. Getting the food but refusing to open his mouth makes the whole exercise futile. Even changing the utensil like instead using a spoon, he use knife would slow the process of eating. Each action, tools and the order in which it is performed make a difference.

To an observer, the whole process of this action is very fathomable. However, envision watching not the person, but rather his shadow on the floor and walls. You can't easily grasp what's being done. A distorted human shape would extend his arm towards a strange form (the shadow of the fridge), cause both the shadow of the person and the fridge to change shape (by opening the door), pull something out, move it in a very strange way and so on and so forth. All actions would be quite incomprehensible. The purpose of the actions wouldn't be discernible; the food might add nothing to the shadow, you can't even distinguish and identify it as a food or perhaps essentially invisible to the observer.

We live in a physical plane which is really just a shadow of reality: the cosmos. We're given the ability to manipulate the cosmos and to utilize its elements through our action and thought. Living in the shadows as we do, we can't always understand what the purpose of our shadow actions is. However, they very important to achieve the purpose we desire to fulfill as to the wellbeing of the cosmos: only our soul can comprehend their meaning and essence.

And I believe these shadows are recorded in Akashic Record. The Akasha is the substratum of all matter. It is even more basic or fundamental than what the Western physicists call the quantum level of matter. Everything that transpires on earth, every thought, every feeling or action we have experienced is recorded in akasha. I believe I create my own akashic record at the time of my birth and will end at the time of my death. This record is permanent and cannot be erased or modified even a bit.

This Akasha I believe is what my soul will examine when I died. And based on what the record reveals, I'm going to judge my Self, my soul.

By the way, the Akashic record is also what makes psychometry and retrocognition possible. When we hold an object, we leave something of ourselves in that object and it will be gradually recorded in the object's akashic record. This doesn't take place on the physical level but on the energy level.

When I studied and accepted this esoteric eastern teaching that every shadow is indelibly and permanently stored in Akasha, then most paranormal phenomenon becomes reasonable and no longer mystifying . Even western science claims that nothing on earth is ever destroyed, but merely transmuted or changed. The Akasha is the movie camera of the astral, mental and spiritual world. It records and preserves literally everything that happens in the universe.
How does Yoruba address Soul Evolution? Or does it. You mentioned "elevated spiritual state" but what does that mean?
To Yoruba, evolution and change is achieve through death. In words of Arthur Peacocke:
Evolution can operate only through the death of individuals, New forms of matter arise only through the dissolution of the old; new life only through death of the old. We as individuals would not be here at all, as members of the species. Homo Saphiens if our forerunners in the evolutionary process had not died. Biological death was present on the earth long before human beings arrived on the scene, and is the prerequisite of our coming into existence through the processes of biological evolution whereby God, thesist must assume, creates new species including Home Sapiens.
The elevated spiritual state I'm speaking of is actually a Kabbalistic point of view but interestingly, Yoruba tradition also believe that through death, soul change its state and also its abode. The Yoruba believe that there is a state, attainable by human soul, beyond the limits of our understanding. And this is attested to by the beliefs and practices of Yoruba people such as veneration of the ancestors, ancestral altars and shrine, funerary rituals, reincarnation, etc.
Once elevated is the cow no longer a cow?
Yes as animal soul doesn't have physical form, I believe.
And his tradition does require judgement for elevation. It's very plainly written by him that a Heavenly Court makes an accounting, and then the soul makes a self evaluation of "right and wrong" actions, and he states that in applying ourselves to strive for improvement we make a pact with the cosmos that there is a right and wrong way to advance our standard. That's a simplified summation of his words, but certainly his words.
I would just want to clarify and distinguish that it is self-reflection and judgement rather than someone greater is judging my soul. And not heavenly court but otherwordly court as I want to make it distinct with the Christian view of heavens which is just located above the clouds where souls of the departed ones are kneeling before God, talking to the elders or judges, weeping, confessing, accounting, recounting, and being judged.

...and I just ran out of time because I need to sleep. Its 2:17 AM here.

I have more to say but I better say it later! Oops... :lol:
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by Seraphin »

Okay, where was I...
It's my position that judgement even from a self evaluation standard has no bearing in the afterlife. I'm not saying that he is wrong or that his tradition is false. I just can't agree with it. That concept directly conflicts with my view of spirit.
As I said, we are living in vast multiverse place. Different paths have different cosmologies, so your soul and my soul do not go in the same process when we die. I hope you do understand that my view is not applicable to everyone and yours to me.

When you die, Erishkegal, Nergal and the seven guardians of Irkalla will have nothing to do with you, nor will you need to go to the gates and do some self-evaluation or reflection. So while I belong to the Near Eastern cosmos that doesn't mean that I know anything of death in the Greek or Norse or Egyptian pantheons and so your own view of afterlife. Yoruba perhaps, as I have worked with the Orishas and Eleggua but Yoruba is also fairly vague what really happens in afterlife.
That is actually less horrifying than what my model/imagination currently holds to be a high probability. But it is horrifying none the less. Since I have lost a child who was never born, it has potential for me to consider that my grief can be released because that child or that "spirit" was never going to be born...Ever.
Yoruba believe in "abiku" (born-to-die children) phenomenon. They believe that the soul of some wicked persons are dispatched to the physical world enter the wombs of pregnant women and are born only to die shortly after. I don't believe in this personally since like you I've lost a child too. Not all beliefs in Yoruba tradition, Near Eastern mythos and ethos and Kabbalah I uphold.
But then the law of conservation of energy comes into play and it sticks in my mind that creating a spirit to trap it in a loop where it never gets to grow is a significant waste of energy. And the universe doesn't waste energy.
True!
Most if not all "systems" seek improvement. It's how they become systems. I myself have worked for more than a decade as a Instructional Systems Designer, making training. So I've come into contact with just about every "improvement system" that humans have devised.

I'm pointing out that those systems, all systems, we strive for right now, are built off the concept that we can do better.
And I agree with that in life. We can do better. We can strive to do better.

I just don't think we can strive to make our soul, more soul. Our soul, our spirit, the spirit of all things, is as good as it gets when it forms itself in the origin.
I believe all souls have their own individualized mission or purpose to accomplish. People have different ethos based on their culture and tradition and each of us has his or her own set of challenges, distinct talents and capabilities, and particular reality which form the crux of his or her mission or purpose in life. Yes, I believe we create our own reality. Some people who belong to the same tradition share some realities while others have personal ones.

At times, a soul may not conclude its purpose and mission in a single lifetime. In such cases, it returns to earth to fulfill the job. Other times it remains a spirits and help other soul to fulfill both of their mission; shooting two birds in one stone while others choose to go to the land of the dead to learn the lesson.

I also believe that soul and the "Spirit" is different. I use them interchangeably sometimes because people are used to hear and use the term spirit rather than soul but when I talk about "essential spirit", this is what I believe that goes back to the Divine Source when we die.

The soul however is the Self, the "I" that inhabits the physical body and acts through it. And I dont believe that all selfs are good. In truth, not just the human being, EVERYTHING possesses a "soul", even inanimate objects.
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by HopefulChild »

Seraphin Murmur wrote: Yoruba believe in "abiku" (born-to-die children) phenomenon. They believe that the soul of some wicked persons are dispatched to the physical world enter the wombs of pregnant women and are born only to die shortly after. I don't believe in this personally since like you I've lost a child too. Not all beliefs in Yoruba tradition, Near Eastern mythos and ethos and Kabbalah I uphold.
That right there. What I underlined in bold. This is so confusing to me. You are obviously a capable individual. Research, study, dedication and contemplation are easily in your reach if not already directly in hand. But you choose a system...and then disregard aspects of it that are...unpleasant to you. Not even incongruous, just.."bleh"...from the sound of it.

I see that similarly to saying, "I deeply and passionately love my wife, but I try to imagine her with a different face every time we are together...because I don't like her face".

I can't see the point in doing that. If a system fits you 90%, but 10% you are willing to throw away, then I say learn what the root is of the 90% and take it, and fill in the 10% and make it your own.

Don't imagine your wife with a different face bro! Find a woman you can love in her entirety and ask her to be your wife. Right?
Please don't be insulted by my mild distraction with that bit above. It's just something I struggle with.

And just so all of you know, this conversation has spawned 2 story ideas for me already. I've gotten two short runs for completely unrelated story ideas, just out of this thread.

I am intrigued by your statement that there is a difference between "spirit" and "soul" though I also feel that further exploration on my part into that distinction may be less fruitful than my imagination would like me to consider at the moment. It is my intuition kicking in. Not that my concept of those two words is set in stone, but it is a very refined concept already for me.

Unfortunately I have to take exception with the constructs of individual "purpose and mission" for a soul. That leads back to destiny and my rather firm stance that the concept of destiny was corrupted for sociological reasons and has remained tainted since. So any discussion of destiny as prologue of a life's trajectory is where I leave off. I can entertain destiny in that form only as a purely hypothetical vehicle for a causality discussion but not really anything more.

I am very much enjoying this thread.
Thank you all.
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by Seraphin »

HopefulChild wrote:That right there. What I underlined in bold. This is so confusing to me. You are obviously a capable individual. Research, study, dedication and contemplation are easily in your reach if not already directly in hand. But you choose a system...and then disregard aspects of it that are...unpleasant to you. Not even incongruous, just.."bleh"...from the sound of it.
This is mainly because I am not part of any religion. I don't have a religion actually. I just play with the labels. I generally feel that religious labels are very restrictive, limiting what should I believe and should not believe and that we shouldn't get caught up in labeling ourselves or others.

Spiritually, I am a pagan, and tend to hold some principles and beliefs of certain traditions and worship certain Deities from different cultures and pantheons such as Ancient Near Eastern (Canaanite, Mesopotamian, Egyptian), Celtic, Hindu, Greek, African and Caribbean traditions (Yoruba, Lucumi/Santeria), and Daemonic (Judeo-Christian, Goetian). Though, not because much of what I've experienced seems to mesh with Hindus and other pagan traditions does not mean I'm on any of those specific religions.

I also practice magick. And basically, I described myself as chaos magickian and Gnostic. If you're familiar with this particular magickal discipline, then you'd know we could basically just delve into any magickal practices we fancy such as Enochian Magick, Kabbalah and partially, the Western Mystery Tradition in my case.

Sorry I know it's a bit confusing but that's me and as a spiritual pagan, not a religious one, I can choose a system and disregard some aspects and uphold some.

I am also a Hardcore Polytheist which means I believe in many Gods, Goddesses, Great Spirits and Celestial Beings -- not as aspects of "Deity" or of the masculine and feminine principles, but as individual sentient Divine Beings. I am also an Animist, I believe that everything has spirit and life force. And also a panentheist.
I see that similarly to saying, "I deeply and passionately love my wife, but I try to imagine her with a different face every time we are together...because I don't like her face".
This is funny because I said something like that in this thread: http://everythingunderthemoon.net/forum ... ml#p235312, where religious Wiccans claimed they belong to Wicca but disregard the basic tenets of its faith.

This is what I said in that thread:
In my humble opinion, one can't choose what is to believe what is not to believe when you're in a religion like Wicca. I also don't think one can be 'partly Wiccan' because one only picks some parts in the Rede or some parts in some Wiccan principles or rites. Why? The same reason, I can't be partly married. It's like on Monday, Wednesday and Friday I'll be married. And on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, I'll be single. It's really absurd because by definition, commitment is whole. We don't give only half of our hearts to anything that we care and love about. So too, one will never know the truth of the Rede and the beauty of Wicca if in his/her heart, one think he/she is only 'partly Wiccan.'


So I think we are saying something! :wink2:
I can't see the point in doing that. If a system fits you 90%, but 10% you are willing to throw away, then I say learn what the root is of the 90% and take it, and fill in the 10% and make it your own.
If you are aware of the Chaotes or those who are practicing Chaos Magick tradition, they are doing that.
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by Firebird »

Ok guys...just blow me off :|
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by Seraphin »

Ok guys...just blow me off :|
Whoops... I honestly didn't noticed your post FF! I'm sooo sorry.
firebirdflys wrote:So then this is the bottom line, science has proven that the human body has an electrical component to it.... call it the soul or the spirit, ...whatever, although some folks have a distinction for those two as well.
What I found out about electricity is it can never die . It can only change forms,
therefore the envelopes that our human bodies are contained in may expire, but our electric body does not. smiley_dance
But yep! I agree with this! Without the soul, the body is like a bulb without electricity, a computer without a software, a knight armour suit with no man inside.

As the electrical component or engine of life, it answers the why of a thing's existence, it's meaning, it's essence, it's power, and it's purpose. It is our "inner identity.
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by HopefulChild »

I didn't see Firebirds post either.

Once there was a little #2 flag, I clicked that.

The electrical signature of the human body and brain is really the core component of what has kept pushing me toward the reality that everything I've learned in science is pointing me toward spirituality and magic.

The frequency of the electrical impulses in the human brain, being the volts and amps, is to this point utterly unique to people. The bigger picture is that all living things put out an electromagnetic field (aura) and that those fields vary in frequency on an individual basis.

While this could be interpreted to fit with SM's delineation between spirit and soul, which is part of the reason I was intrigued by that idea, a more probable interpretation is that our fields are unique because they are the broadcasting component of the driving force that is us.
How we are feeling, thinking, our health and our interactions with others and the environment help form our protective bubble.

The planet does the same thing. There is a giant magnetic field that encompasses the planet and shields the surface from the mass of deadly radiation and free ions constantly streaming from the sun and other stars. Why would it be any different for the individual creatures on the planet? We all have a little force field around us because we were all born inside a force field, inside another force field (mothers aura).

You know one thing that irks me? Research on "death" and what is happening during it, is still taboo. We should have a large room sized MRI that scans the entire volume of space around a human being as they expire. Let's see what happens to that energy.
During a time that I was a contractor for the government here in the states I worked at a base and I had access to the AFRL, the Air Force Research Library. I found the 3 papers that led to the development of "starlight" scopes. Night vision. The 3'rd paper in that series posited that the same principles that would allow a series of circuits to view thermal radiation could be modified to allow a similar circuit to view electromagnetic field density. But no one has ever bothered to work on the engineering component of that modified circuit.

Aside from just the blatant manufacturing benefits of being able to use a camera to see where magnetic fields overlap and collapse instead of theorizing it with gigantic calculus formulas, there would be a few other benefits.

You would be able to visually see the human electromagnetic field. Right now with a thermal camera, if a person is just 2-3 inches around a corner of a stone wall, you can't see them with thermal imaging. Our heat doesn't spread out as much as it rises up. Our EMF however is a cycling field and it extended out from us up to 20 inches. Also inert matrerials like dead wood and stone are penetrated by our EMF and you would be able to see people through walls much easier than with thermal imaging. Right now if you want to hide inside a building from thermal, you just raise the temperature inside the building to 90 degrees and people are all but invisible.

Another benefit that no one cares about is that you should be able to see ANY disruptive electromagnetic fields. We could see what happens during field collapse in things as it happens. We could see the EMF of a person about to expire.
We might theoretically be able to see the energy fields associated with spirit, or ghosts, or other forms of intelligence.

But no one wants to spend the money to develop something that is only slightly better than what they already have.
There are 2 companies who are looking for funding for EMF cameras, but the camera chip they want to develop would be macroscopic, so it would primarily be used to visually detect cracks and weak spots in metals such as air frames and building superstructures.

But dare to dream I say. Being able to accurately read the human electromagnetic fields is the first step to having a star trek tricorder lol.
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by Firebird »

:D no worries
I tried to see if I could get legit documentation on this....but
A member of my coven used to work at a very well known reasearch
Hospital. He told me about an older gentelman undergoing a brain scan.
Well the man unfortunately expired during the proceedure.
He said his temporal lobe had lit up like a bon fire.

Woah, maybe this has to do with people saying they see their life flash before them?

Bb, Firebird
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by Seraphin »

Becks wrote:In terms of the "isms" sadly even a degree in Anthropology didn't tell me exactly how I feel about the structure of the beyond, and who or what the great creatorial being(s) are. I think that is because I see the world in grey and not black and white. I just keep working with those concepts. The more I learn the more I understand how the universe universe expands into a beautiful and complex multifaceted wonder-inspirer. Who am I to say how it goes. I'm here to marvel and learn as much as I can....and I'm here to wonder.

I do have to sit and reconsider if something has changed in me and my perception....
You are a wonderful person Becks, I think!
The term I use to describe a supreme creatorial force would be "the creator". It depends on who I am speaking to however, I like to speak so that I am understood, and if someone like the term God or Goddess...in discourse with that person I will probably use their term.
This is a common pagan belief, other term normally used is 'The Divine' or 'The Source' or 'The Universe' or 'The All' or "The Unity" or "The Force or Power" or something along those lines.

Most pagans often drop the term 'God' as a name because of the negative connotations they have with it from their background. Which is a bit unfortunate, because it's a title, not a name, and Judeo-Christians only use it because Their God wont tell them how to pronounce His true name. So they have to call Him 'God' or 'Lord' like calling our presidents 'Mr or Madam President' instead of their name. The judges in our court, "your Honor", or more accurately, the way the entire Commonwealth calls Queen Elizabeth 'The Queen'.
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

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Well, for me it rolls off the tongue for me better than 'Yod Hey Vav Hey' or 'Adonai' (which sounds really beautiful to me) As seen in Judaism and Ceremonial ways of practicing. ;)

I remember as a child loving the idea that the creatorial force was so big and wonderful that humans knew no name. In my world everything was named....so for me there was real awe in considering that something couldn't be named. It's cool.
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

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I have seen plenty of electrical activity monitoring in my years of working in the medical field. I spent several years working as a nursing assistant on a cardiac unit. We had most of the patients on telemetry, and more than once, had to go wake someone out of a really good dream because their heart rhythm had gone into ventricular tachycardia. That particular part of it, always made me wonder if their essence had partially slipped through the veil as they were dreaming. Our bodies are bio-electrical constructs, but without our essence to properly operate them, function goes all to whack. We also have to maintain a proper chemical balance, much like maintaining fuel, lubricants, and coolants in a car.

The electrical activity of the brain seems to be even more specialized than that of the heart. Seizure disorders can be notoriously difficult to control, and brain mapping, has shown that certain areas light up with different types of seizure disorder. So is this simply defective brain circuitry, or is it a disconnect between the essence and the body? Is the essence trying to wear a brain that doesn't quite fit?

I have more questions than answers, but as Fox Mulder would say, "The truth is out there." We just have to learn how to recognize it.

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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

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SnowCat wrote: So is this simply defective brain circuitry, or is it a disconnect between the essence and the body? Is the essence trying to wear a brain that doesn't quite fit?
Snow
WoW, WoW, WoW!!!

I've not only seen that question before, but I've seen a paper proposed by a reasearcher who had a very similar question of his own.

You nailed it Snowcat. This topic has come up again and again but only ever on the fringes of medicine and it's because I think that "superstitious" people are better scientists. Intuition plays a huge role in science and scientists who have made the really big breakthroughs always say, "trust your gut", and then they turn around and out of the other side of their mouth say superstition is the bane of mankind and blahblahblah. That is just direct Hubris.

One thing that is really difficult to study right now is Electromagnetic Field Collapse Mechanics.

15 years ago the internet was a clearinghouse of EMFC information. But in the last 10 years Field Collapse Mechanics has taken a rather sharp turn in both classical and quantum physics and it is apparent that there are some really massive things on the horizon based on some rather simple and mostly overlooked facts and figures that come from a more complete understanding of field collapse.

Why is this significant. Right OK, sorry. Papers I used to reference, and similar articles have all been taken down or 404'd. it's not a conspiracy that I'm pointing out, it's just a reality. Science right now is a funding machine and breakthroughs are important for generating new funding so people are not nearly as open with findings and results unless they have them locked down, publish and get a blurb in the mainstream media to accent the new push. All of that is for the funding machine.

Some of you may remember when the crazy "lifters" was all over the internet. It was a really simple thing, a gimmick. You hook an old tv transformer kicking out 120 amps to a copper wire triangle attached to a balsa wood frame and crank up the juice and this wire would rise up into the air lifting the frame. People were doing it with aluminum foil and other simple materials and there was a big push by the institutional physics communities and other materials science gurus saying it was a hoax and it didn't work like that and so on.

Within 5 years "legitimate" researchers "discovered" and published and gained millions in funding for EHD. ElectroHydrodynamic phenomenon. Basically Ion thrust. A LIFTER... JPL recently publicized that they can now generate Ion thrust in a vacuum using a forced em field collapse in a specialized chamber, which they could do 10 years ago but not in a perfect vacuum.

So, holistic and spiritual healers have been using rare earth magnets for a long time to help alleviate aches and pains and ailments and for nearly all of that time institutional medicine called it quackery and said anyone gaining benefits from magnets were nut jobs who were suffering placebo effect.

Once again a little research went a long way and now we know magneto resonance therapy can help with cartilage and vascular issues and so on.

So 20 years ago or so, there were 2 researchers who were trying to study what happens during the electromagnetic field collapse of the human bio-electric field. Both of these guys were "spiritual" scientists and didn't work inside the system.

I read many many articles about their work, about the consistently anomalous readings they had gathered and the theories they were forming based on those readings.
I have been trying for months to remember their names and what their theory was called and the internet has responded with nothing.

If this sounds familiar and you can recall even one of their names or the theory post it here please.
I'm starting to think this is similar to when the magnet therapy, and ion lifters were popular in that the information has been slowly discredited and mocked so it doesn't gain widespread acceptance and become "common sense" so that some big flashy "discovery" can be locked down and published just in time for a whole new field of study to pop up that needs millions in new funding.
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

Post by Chalice »

What Seraphin Murmur says about the different 'afterlifes' was recently revealed to me.

Not to worry, I guess we can return and go to another one if we want?
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

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Seraphin Murmur wrote:I am an Afro-Carribean Tradition, Ancient Near Eastern, Daemonolator polytheist who believes in the Otherworlds as a series of distinct realms outside of this physical realm or plane which has greatly influenced my belief on the subject. :) :lol:

I believe that when we die we do one of several things...
  • Go into the Realm of the Dead of particular path or tradition

    I believe that somewhere in the Otherworlds are the Lands of the Dead of different paths' cosmologies, and that's where each of us go when we die. To me, the Otherworlds are vast and distinct -- inside the realms of spiritual plane are hundreds of realms of the dead within the Otherworlds. So somewhere in the Otherworlds is Heaven and Hell for the Christians; the Irkalla or Kur of Ancient Mesopotamians and Sumerian polytheists; the Aaru and Duat of Ancient Egyptians and Kemetics; the Elysian fields and Tartarus for the Ancient Greeks and Hellenics; Summerlands for the Wiccans and neo-Wiccans; Guinee of Vodoos; etc, etc, etc.

    For me personally, I will likely go into "Kur" (The Land of No Return) which is ruled by the Goddess Ereshkigal and Her consort, the death God Nergal (who both belong to my pantheon).

    If I died, my soul would pass through the seven gates of the netherworld leaving articles of clothing and adornment at each gate, which would serve as toll fees for my passage and to keep me from going the wrong path. My fiancee and I called Kur or Irkalla as the 'Otherwordly Washing Machine.' Because that's exactly how it works for us. The way our soul is cleansed in Kur is similar to the way our clothes being taken off and are cleansed in a washing machine. This is the symbolic meaning of leaving articles of clothing at each gate.

    This is like putting myself in my filthy shirt's shoes, so to speak. If I were to be taken off and thrown into boiling hot water and flung around for half an hour, I might start to feel that the person who owns me doesn't really like me. However, the fact is that it's only after going through a wash cycle that I as a shirt can be used again.

    We don't put our dirty clothes in the washing machine to punish them. We put them through what seems like a rough and painful procedure only to make them clean and usable again. The water loosens the dirt, and the force of being swirled around shakes any stain or grease off completely. Far from hurting our clothes, I'm actually doing them a favor by putting them through this process.

    So too with my soul. Every act I do in my lifetime in my opinion leaves an imprint on my soul. The positive ones I do brightens and elevates my soul, and every wrongdoing leaves a dirt, rust or stain that needs to be cleansed. If, at the end of my life, I leave this physical world without fixing the wrongs I've done, my soul is unable to reach its place of rest on high. I must go through a cycle of deep cleansing. Again, this is not a punishment as Irkalla had no punishment or reward, with both Erishkigal and Nergal being seen as both warden and guardian of the dead rather than an 'evil' ruler like Christian version of Satan.

    Of course, this whole process can be avoided. If I choose to be reincarnated and make amends with the souls I have hurt, I can leave this world with "clean clothes."
  • Remain earthbound

    If I die a sudden and traumatic death (accidents, murder or suicide) then there's a high chance I'll remain earthbound. This is because I'm still in a state of shock. Based on countless documented stories from around the world since the beginning of man's history, spirits or souls don't automatically get catapulted to the land of the dead at once. Some are still around for a while. This is nothing new but many people, especially the conservative Christians, still have a hard time accepting it. Usually 'earthbound' means that I'm not here in the physical plane by choice, but that I can't move on for whatever reason. Either I'm not aware that I'm already dead, I still have some unfinished business that wont let me move on or just don't know where to go. This is the reason why spirits of the departed can be seen in places where they once lived, worked, played or last seen.
  • Choose to remain Earthbound

    This would happen when I choose not to move on. Perhaps I want to stay and watch over my families or whatever. Or I want to wreak some havoc on the living because of revenge, vengeance or retribution. Or I'm seeking answers and justice. Sometimes being earthbound is a conscious decision and if your will is strong enough then you can make it happen.
  • Become Spirit Guides, Ascended Masters, Guardians, etc.

    In Yoruba tradition, death is not the end of life; rather, it is a transition which is more properly called 'change of life'. The Yoruba believe that the soul of the departed must exist somewhere in some otherworld. Elders may also choose to remain as Ancestral spirit. They continue on, watching over their descendants to ensure that they are safe and grow to be honorable. I think that this probably happens more in modern times than we realize, at least on a temporary level. You often hear stories of people who are haunted by dead relatives and I think that this is a similar concept.
  • Reincarnate

    I do believe in reincarnation, but not as the inevitable thing that many people do. I don't think that it happens to EVERYONE and I don't think that it's a set, unchangeable process, but it's definitely one of the options out there and many souls prefer to do it.

    I think it's likely that reincarnation is linked to religion and cosmology. I believe there bare souls or spirits that will always reincarnate because that is the purpose of their faith to evolve to the point of enlightenment, perfection, evolution or ascension. I think this is a characteristic of transcendental religions in particular, such as Buddhism and Hinduism, and also Jewish Kabbalah. So for some people, reincarnation is a set automatic thing that will happen to them once they die. Whereas for others it may not be a part of their afterlife at all.

    In Yoruba traditions and in my belief, it is just one of several options - some people do and some people don't.
Where do the souls or spirits choose their path?

One school of thought (Theosophy, specifically) proposes that when a person dies, his soul and spirit goes to anotherworld called the "Devachanic Plane" located in the mental plane where it is met by ancestors or spirit guides. The guides will show in detail the life he has just left and they will know the effects that his thoughts, emotions, intentions and works had on other people. From this panoramic review of his life, he will make a decision whether he will go to the land of the dead to learn his lessons, become a guide, helper or guardian to others, or go back to earth as a new incarnation to work out his karma.

Of course, this is just my opinion as you have requested. Therefore, you may accept or reject it.

Anyway... that's my thoughts :lol:
I actually can say I agree alot with what Seraphin has to say. I believe death is a really complex happening... Alot of things could happen, including what Seraphin has said here. I will say that with the whole "Christians go to heaven" and "These people go here" though is not always true, I think that maybe some places really just are out of myth, and rather than being actual places are just metaphors for other things... Really though, in the end you live in this life, not another. It doesn't really matter what happens after death to me. Sure it's an interesting question, just not one easily answerable. There is either me siding with Seraphin or me siding with myself by saying that when we die our energies are released... We become one with everything. Just another thing that could happen.
"I will darken the heavens and turn all stars to mice."
-Diana
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Re: What Do You Think Happens When We Die?

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HopefulChild, Google Thomas Townsend Brown. If you want specific sites, pm me.

Snow
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