Think the name or say it?

[TheDeadlyEntity]

I was wondering, when someone calls an entity within a ritual, whether this is for clearing the area of asking for help with spells etc is it enough to say there names and magical words in your mind or do they have to be spoken aloud?

The reason Im asking is because Im studying some of the golden dawn rituals and some of these seem to contain names that are very hard to pronouns, they sound fine in my head but out aloud they are near impossible to say.

Please let me know your thoughts, do you all say the words? Or do you find it ok just to say them in your mind?

[fatalism]

Depends on the level you are. For instance: beginners might have to actually cast a physical circle in order to spark their ability to visualize the magical circle while adepts don't need the physical prop. The same applies to vocalization. The physical vocalizing of the words are a means of activating the psychic 'calling' of the deity. For instance when you're performing the LBRP, you are asked to pronounce a series of Hebrew words like 'YHVH,' 'malkuth,' etc, and you are asked to visualize the sound carrying to the farthest corners of the Universe. If you are able to do this without vocalizing then you don't have to actually speak the words. This concept is best summed with "as above, so below." If you can do it on the astral plane, it transfers to the physical as well.

[TheDeadlyEntity]

Thanks for that, that makes a lot of sense!
One other thing though, does the pronousiation matter?
If I did say the words wrong, would my intention still be the main issue?

[Skylights]

I think it's crucial to put in the research time and find out how the names are pronounced, but if you accidentally misspeak, I shouldn't think an entity will hold it against you. As long as you tried.

[TheDeadlyEntity]

I fully agree with you, its very important to know everything you can find out about an entity before you try anything but sometimes the pronunciation that is given is just as hard to understand as the actual name.

I remember a while back I asked a few different people to read the pronunciation for an entity in the nocronomicon and every one that tried reading it, read it different!

This is why I asked about it, there must be many people out there that pronounce the names different. But I also believe there is a lot of power in your voice when you do speak the words.

[fatalism]

The pronunciation depends heavily on your paradigm. Some ceremonialists claim that energy lies in the names that you are given and thus the pronunciation is vital toward the ritual. For instance, names of Enochian angels are commonly thought to be powerful even when casually spoken of or read. Ultimately it depends on which context that you're working with and in the end you really call the shots.

Finally, I wouldn't worry too much if it's just the Necronomicon simply because not very many magicians work with the deities in the context the books present anyway. The Necronomicon deities are often used in rituals similar to Western evokation (if you're a ceremonialist) or just plain horseplay (if you're a chaote haha).

[TheDeadlyEntity]

No I’m not playing around with the Necronomicon, I did many years ago and that’s what got me interested, Like many other people I though the book was a joke until I had confirmation of its reality!

Im actually researching information for my site, I don’t practise as such, I have done in the past with extremely good results. However, I worked out that you could affect things without actual magic “or should I say rituals”.

Im studying the Golden dawn now, the only reason I said anything about the nocronomicon is that, it was the first thing to mind. Its funny you said reading the words can bring about there power, I Noticed that while reading some of the banishing rituals (LBRP) and The Opening by Watchtower.

I don’t practise anything until I feel that I could cope with anything that happens to go wrong. I know that sounds a little drastic but Like I say I have seen for my self what can happen and I know not t play about with entities.

Anyway thanks for your help its all sinking in nicely

[GenevieveDawn]

I generally speak the words outloud. Did one of these tonight actually. For me I feel like I am giving the Deity more reverance by speaking outloud. Often I do their actual invocation this way, but any "conversation" w/ the deity just goes however it goes. Overall I don't think most care about pronunciatons, but there are a few that I think do. Personal opinion.

Once you work with them more, you will quickly find out who likes what and how they like it. Trust me they will let you know.

[[aphrodite]]

I may be mistaken but wasn't there a film on the Necronomicon. If you haven't already guessed Yes I'm a film buff.

Anyway back to the point I believe pronuciation isn't that important as long as you try to be as close as possible.
I always speak outload when casting or invoking.



blessed be
APHRODITE
XXX

[TheDeadlyEntity]

Thanks for everyone’s feedback on this one, I do realise there is extra power in saying the words I have always known that, but I have been thinking about this and speaking with a couple of friends elsewhere. One of then said he does a lot of his spell work in his garden and because of where he lives it would be impossible for him to speak the words. So he does a lot of spell work on the astral plane.

Anyway I will stick to speaking the words were possible so I don’t upset some deity by saying his name wrong lol

Thanks again