Lilith's Cave

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Corbin
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Corbin »

Getting back to your original post. I'm reminded of a comment by Doreen Vailente (paraphrased) regarding a witch who claimed to be a traditional hereditary witch from an unbroken chain who learned mother-to-daughter verbatim and undiluted.

She asked "Haven't you learned anything new?"

-------

I have had experience of reconstructionist Celtic vs Neo-celtic and the shaman vs neo-shaman "witchwars".

My observation is you have some wonderful and honest people within the reconstructionist and traditional camps yet the ethos of these camps also attracts those who spoil the brew with a clannish, narrow-minded, us-vs-them, one-upmanship. Egotism has no place in spirituality. It's a shame ... but to quote what is known as the "Gestalt Prayer" by the psychologist Fritz Perls:

" ... I do my thing and you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, And you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you, and I am I,
and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped ... "

I am unapologetically eclectic; I am Neo-pagan and proud. I honour my deities in my own ways and they in turn honour me. What other people think about this is their own problem, it has never touched on being mine.
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vassal
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by vassal »

Corbin wrote:Getting back to your original post. I'm reminded of a comment by Doreen Vailente (paraphrased) regarding a witch who claimed to be a traditional hereditary witch from an unbroken chain who learned mother-to-daughter verbatim and undiluted.

She asked "Haven't you learned anything new?"

-------

I have had experience of reconstructionist Celtic vs Neo-celtic and the shaman vs neo-shaman "witchwars".

My observation is you have some wonderful and honest people within the reconstructionist and traditional camps yet the ethos of these camps also attracts those who spoil the brew with a clannish, narrow-minded, us-vs-them, one-upmanship. Egotism has no place in spirituality. It's a shame ... but to quote what is known as the "Gestalt Prayer" by the psychologist Fritz Perls:

" ... I do my thing and you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, And you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you, and I am I,
and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped ... "

I am unapologetically eclectic; I am Neo-pagan and proud. I honour my deities in my own ways and they in turn honour me. What other people think about this is their own problem, it has never touched on being mine.
This entire thread was a breath of fresh air for me.

I'm certainly eclectic and unapologetic. I also do not consider myself Hindu but I feel like that the pantheon and philosophy still helped me along the way!

Ma Kali, called to me at the initiation of my yoga practice. Over time I saw her multiplicity unfold. I saw her as Maha Kali, as Shakti. I began to see her as both the gleam on the blade & the blade in the night. I saw her glimmer in Lakshmi, I could sense her auspiciousness in the beauty of Ishtar, I could hear the cognate of Tara whispered in her name. I'm of too many cultures so its probably why I moved east to west. Finding my center in Aphrodite, Ourania, Venus. I'm nothing but syncretic.

Brihat in Sanskrit, means the highly exalted one an epithet for the shining goddess, Brigid means exalted one. I don't dare underestimate the reach and sensibilities of deities in making it easier for us to understand them or even connect with them personally.

I think we can learn great lessons from god/dess through the filter of different cultural constructs.
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Lord_of_Nightmares
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

Corbin wrote:Getting back to your original post. I'm reminded of a comment by Doreen Vailente (paraphrased) regarding a witch who claimed to be a traditional hereditary witch from an unbroken chain who learned mother-to-daughter verbatim and undiluted.

She asked "Haven't you learned anything new?"

-------

I have had experience of reconstructionist Celtic vs Neo-celtic and the shaman vs neo-shaman "witchwars".

My observation is you have some wonderful and honest people within the reconstructionist and traditional camps yet the ethos of these camps also attracts those who spoil the brew with a clannish, narrow-minded, us-vs-them, one-upmanship. Egotism has no place in spirituality. It's a shame ... but to quote what is known as the "Gestalt Prayer" by the psychologist Fritz Perls:

" ... I do my thing and you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, And you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you, and I am I,
and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped ... "

I am unapologetically eclectic; I am Neo-pagan and proud. I honour my deities in my own ways and they in turn honour me. What other people think about this is their own problem, it has never touched on being mine.
This sums up how I feel. A lot of recons I had met were always trying to control me and others, but how they felt and practiced. It trickled down to me in my bad years, and I regret treating people that way now.
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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Lord_of_Nightmares
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

vassal wrote:
This entire thread was a breath of fresh air for me.

I'm certainly eclectic and unapologetic. I also do not consider myself Hindu but I feel like that the pantheon and philosophy still helped me along the way!

Ma Kali, called to me at the initiation of my yoga practice. Over time I saw her multiplicity unfold. I saw her as Maha Kali, as Shakti. I began to see her as both the gleam on the blade & the blade in the night. I saw her glimmer in Lakshmi, I could sense her auspiciousness in the beauty of Ishtar, I could hear the cognate of Tara whispered in her name. I'm of too many cultures so its probably why I moved east to west. Finding my center in Aphrodite, Ourania, Venus. I'm nothing but syncretic.

Brihat in Sanskrit, means the highly exalted one an epithet for the shining goddess, Brigid means exalted one. I don't dare underestimate the reach and sensibilities of deities in making it easier for us to understand them or even connect with them personally.

I think we can learn great lessons from god/dess through the filter of different cultural constructs. But we should
I am a in-the-middle polytheist where I believe in some syncreticism. I think there is totally enough evidence to say Ishtar and Aphrodite are the same goddess, based in archaeology. I don't see why gods are bound by something frivolous as religion or region.

I also had an experience with Isis which was similar to Lucius's revelation in the Golden Ass:
“Behold, Lucius,” she said, “moved by your prayer I come to you—I, the natural mother of all life, the mistress of the elements, the first child of time, the supreme divinity, the queen of those in hell, the first among those in heaven, the uniform manifestation of all the gods and goddesses—I, who govern by my nod the crests of light in the sky, the purifying wafts of the ocean, and the lamentable silences of hell—I, whose single godhead is venerated all over the earth under manifold forms, varying rites, and changing names. Thus, the Phrygians that are the oldest human stock call me Pessinuntia, Mother of the Gods. The aboriginal races of Attica call me Cecropian Minerva. The Cyprians in their island-home call me Paphian Venus. The archer Cretans call me Diana Dictynna. The three-tongued Sicilians call me Stygian Proserpine. The Eleusinians call me the ancient goddess Ceres. Some call me Juno. Some call me Bellona. Some call me Hecate. Some call me Rhamnusia. But those who are enlightened by the earliest rays of that divinity the sun, the Ethiopians, the Arii, and the Egyptians who excel in antique lore, all worship me with their ancestral ceremonies and call me by my true name, Queen Isis...”’
She used different names, but mentioned Ishtar and Aphrodite to me. Later I discovered the archaeology and even later from that I found the Isis-Aphrodite syncretization in Rome. One of the gods, when I asked about all the variances in names, stated that sometimes gods use each other's names. This may be true with Isis-Aphrodite, but it certainly is not with Ishtar and Aphrodite because they ARE the same goddess. (Or Ishtar and Inanna if you go back further.) Gods are super complex beings. I mean just looking at Ancient Near East there's a lot of time some goddesses blur. (Also, my mind was blown when I read the Golden Ass after Isis told me all that stuff. :flyingwitch: )

For me, as I am a monist, Shaktism is the Hindu belief system for me. It really confers to my experiences in life. It's funny you mention the Irish Brigid... Have you checked out the sanskrit connection to Ireland? Danu is one of the goddesses they think may have originated as a Hindu goddess.

I agree about lessons different gods of different cultures can give us. I consider myself an eclectic witch and a Hindu at this point, but I still work with gods outside of India.
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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vassal
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by vassal »

You've just rewarded me with new reading material! Thank you!

I think it makes perfect sense that deities can share names but that some deities are not the same as others. In fact I wonder sometimes that the identities/facets of divinity weren't just gateways to broadening our perspective of them anyway.

I have not looked much into the connection. I have studied some Sanskrit for my old mantra practice and I'm​ still revelling in how far reaching the linguistic ties are!

I suppose I'm reductionist.. I try to be delicate about how I view all divinity as expressions of the one since some are very touchy xD.

Well, you've blown my mind with the Isis connection. So I'm off to read xD!!!
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

No problem. Lucius's Isis revelation is the most famous part of the Golden Ass. She is called "she of 10,000 names".

I read somewhere that Irish people were descended from groups in India and Middle East. You find if you go far back enough, all those earlier religions are related via Indo-European religion. You will see many similarities in comparative religion. The cool thing for me is that the Nordic cosmology and Hindu cosmology are basically the same. (Asura/Jotun and all.)

I feel the same as you. I am very careful unless I know specifically so and so is the same as another god or they don't care. If I don't know the god is treated as a separate entity from the others.
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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Kassandra
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Kassandra »

.


I'm just curious about the "Aztec days" you've mentioned. It seems like a traumatic experience. But if you ever did feel compelled to talk about it, I would be interested to hear about:

• Who were the Aztec gods you worked with? Did you work primarily with one god?
• How old were you when you first began working with the Aztec gods? Was this practice forced on you by family members, or was it your choice?
• What were some typical rituals you practiced? Did others practice with you, or did you practice solitary?
•. Was there any part of working with them you enjoyed?

...but if you didnt want to talk about it at all, I'd understand.

Thanks.



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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

Kassandra wrote:.


I'm just curious about the "Aztec days" you've mentioned. It seems like a traumatic experience. But if you ever did feel compelled to talk about it, I would be interested to hear about:

• Who were the Aztec gods you worked with? Did you work primarily with one god?
No. But I did have one main god, Tlaloc. Tezcatlipoca became the main one later. Other gods with Xipe Totec, Itzpapalotl, Quetzalcoatl, Coatlicue, and that's off the top of my head.
• How old were you when you first began working with the Aztec gods? Was this practice forced on you by family members, or was it your choice?
I was 20ish. It was my choice, my family just thought I was a weirdo and didn't care to understand me. (They had ideas I switched religions every week and stuff, they did not understand me at all. They hated religious people too, used to make fun of them.) They really never liked any weird stuff I was into. They were Christian, but conservative. For them it was about how things looked, social conformity, which was why they were Christian probably.
• What were some typical rituals you practiced? Did others practice with you, or did you practice solitary?
The community pretty much abandoned me, then later dissolved, (Not by my own doing.) so I was by myself. Rituals did consist of offerings and blood letting. Not every ritual had auto-sacrifice, [blood letting] but enough of it did. (It was practiced commonly throughout Mesoamerica.)
•. Was there any part of working with them you enjoyed?

...but if you didnt want to talk about it at all, I'd understand.

Thanks.



.
There some positive aspects I do enjoy, I do not enjoy many of the gods. Some of them I am alright with, and others, we just don't get along anymore. The biggest positive aspect the religion had on me was not religious per se, but the magical system of nahualli. That really did help. I also think it can be completely a secular practice, since it really requires no gods. Another thing I do miss, is burning copal resin on charcoal. I love the smell of it.

I wrote up a long essay about it here: http://witchofthewild.tumblr.com/sp

it's a bit outdated of a link though because I moved on to Shaktism, which I realized was the path I would have taken if I never met the Aztec gods. I was into Dianic Wicca/Goddess movement at a young age. So Shaktism is a natural progression. So, when I say Wicca in the link, I really mean like Neo-Wicca/eclectic witchcraft.
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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Lord_of_Nightmares
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

I also got to thinking about it when I was in the Aztec religion I gave off this aura were most people just didn't like me or care that much about me. Idk what it was and I have no explanation for it. People usually disregarded me, were more rude, and generally hateful. Even when they normally weren't like that. Some of it was me because I was mean back then, other times when I was polite I would get a lot of hate. I simply can't think of a rational reason why.

It was from both family and the general public.
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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Kassandra
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Kassandra »

.


Thank you for responding to my questions, and sharing with us that arduous period of your spiritual journey, Lady_Lilith.




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Lord_of_Nightmares
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

You're welcome. I am happy to share any info. :)
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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Lord_of_Nightmares
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

I had, had this idea floating in my head since I was 20. People had made Lilith into a feminist star, but I always felt this way about Ishtar too. It took me hours to type this post up. (Actually more like a couple of days, because I stretched it.) I am proud of this post though. (Trigger warning for controversial and difficult topics!)

Ishtar: the Feminist symbol
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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vassal
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by vassal »

Lady_Lilith wrote:I had, had this idea floating in my head since I was 20. People had made Lilith into a feminist star, but I always felt this way about Ishtar too. It took me hours to type this post up. (Actually more like a couple of days, because I stretched it.) I am proud of this post though. (Trigger warning for controversial and difficult topics!)

Ishtar: the Feminist symbol
<3 This!!!
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Lord_of_Nightmares
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

Thanks so much. Most of the feedback so far has been pretty positive.

So there's a coven I have been joining and I should be initiated soon. I have been identifying as Shakti Wiccan lately. (Hindu and Wiccan) I've been accepted by both groups and no one has been very judgemental.

Reading this has helped because he is a 2nd decree Wiccan and was raised Hindu.

https://quantumphoenix.net/about-mani/m ... agan-path/
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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Lord_of_Nightmares
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Re: Lilith's Cave

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

My grandparents bought me a 2016 Jeep Patriot.

Image

It's the nicest thing anyone has done for me.
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
- Devi
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