Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

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freyja13
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Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by freyja13 »

Who do you think would be the Maiden, Mother, and Crone of Welsh mythology in the Wiccan framework?

The reason this interests me is because of the great variance of how many Female Deities could fit each role in a variety of ways. For example, the Goddess Ceridwen-tending to her magical cauldron, for a year and a day, until a slip of one of her servants leads to a great tale of transformation into her chasing the servant, until various series of events she ends up giving birth to the great Bard, and demi-God, Taliesin.

This tale seems to fit her role as a Goddess of Rebirth, Transformation, and Knowledge. The knowledge of all the herbs she picked for the cauldron's potion in order to transform her ugly son into a handsome son. Thus, you see her role as a mother; yet, her ruthless chase by which she transforms into many animals to catch her dim-sited servant portray her as more aggressive. A trait, that is more of the Crone side of the Triple Goddess--one that Graves agrees with as Ceridwen being the darker side of the Goddess.

Then, we have the beautiful and strong Rhiannon!

Who definitely portrays in Welsh mythology her range from Maiden (her gifts into tricking her horrible-to-be husband into the man she wants Pwyll), Mother (Pwyll is deceived by Rhiannon's nannies that Rhiannon is blamed and forced to tell her tale to all visiting people and carry them among her shoulder), and then her rescuing from the Tower of Dyfed by Manawydan-her 2nd husband).

Thus, it seems she is a Goddess of Strength for having to be forced to carry all people to enter the city upon her shoulders. This seems like Motherly strength proving her innocence and the grief for her child and as a feminist figure in my opinion. Thus, here we see Rhiannon imo as a Mother.

However, her youth in seeking Pwyll while he sat upon the seat of Cathair Idris and drew him down where they fell in love and planned her escape from her horrible husband-to-be; her beautiful young figure that drew Pwyll--from the chair that would either render you bardic qualities or possible insanity--Rhiannon's beauty upon her white horse in the forest counter ideas romance. Words better suited to describe the young Goddess-the Maiden.

Speaking of feminine Welsh deities we can't forget of the beautiful Branwen, sister of Bran the Blessed, who in an attempt to have piece between Wales (England)-the Isle of the Mighty and Ireland-The Isle of the Brave, or sometimes, Blessed.

[I feel here a connection between Helen of Troy--the face that launched a 1,000 ships an the great journeys of Odysseus. Here her story, ends in much the same way--a devastation for Wales, and the loss of their Beloved.]

Her beauty is so much (Maiden) that the families (Bran-King of Wales and Matholwych-King of Ireland) to end war and strife between their countries make a trade. Bran will give the holy cauldron (upon which soldiers are made invincible in the coming war; or possibly, the Holy Grail?) which has great powers leading to much devastation and a marriage between Matholwych and Bran's sister Branwen to stop feuding. However, once in Ireland Branwen is made to be a slave and once she gets to Math, Math declares war on Ireland.

A war that wages on for years and years this is due to the Irish soldier's immorality by using the holy grail/cup; however the Welsh win, at horrible odds: leaving only 7 Welsh to return to Wales. Among them, Taliesin return, and Branwen returns but then dies on the coast soon after; however, the great Bran is slayed. (Whereupon Taliesin and the remaining Welsh engage in a quest for Bran's concealment and subsequent perilous but successful adventure so his gaze may always protect Britain from Invaders).

Speaking of beautiful Welsh Goddesses we have the beautiful Goewin. Whom upon the great demi-God, Math rests on in case of times of war upon which he must serve to war; however, the woman must be maiden (virgin).
In another tale, Math is tricked by Gwyddion into creating a war, so Math must leave his beautiful maiden, Goewin, in innocence to Gwyddion's brother-Gilfaethwy (Gil-fae-thoo-i)- who has his way with Goewin.
Upon returning, Math shows the brothers a lesson and turns them into a series of animals for 3 years, before returning them to men.

Thus, without a virgin foot holder (since Goewin is no longer a maiden because of Gilfaethwy) Gwyddion suggests his sister: Arianrhod. Who upon failing the test for her maidenhood gives birth to the sun Goddess himself Llew Llaw Gyffes also known as Lleu, or Llu in other Irish traditions, or Celtic for that matter: His worship goes back into the Middle Ages.

Arianrhod we see as a symbol of cunningness, because upon her humiliation of the test she curses her son that he will never have a name, never bear arms, and never be married. All of which, her brother Gwyddion outmaneuvers her in all three and he marries Blodeuwedd-who Gwyddion makes out of all the flowers (Maiden symbol) of the earth for Llu. Because Arianrhod curses her son that he can never marry a human. Thus, because she was made of flowers, Llew Llaw Gyffes marries her.
Blodeuwedd even tries to kill Lleu, but is caught and turned into an Owl. Thus, connecting her to the Full Moon-the Mother; even though her flowery character, is more maiden.

Thus, we see the many roles that women play in Welsh mythology that the framing of each deity into Maiden, Mother and Crone can be so difficult.

What do you think? I personally see how each deity can be many characteristics of the Maiden, or Mother, or Crone.
I can't come up with them because in my mind they are so broad. What is your opinion?
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Re: Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by Lord_of_Nightmares »

Anciently speaking, goddesses were not put into "maiden, mother, crone" categories. This is a modern invention. It really depends if you want to see the Celtic (Welsh) gods in the original lenses or the modern or a mix of the two. If modern is better for the practitioner one has to be careful in projecting too much onto the gods.

For me, godesses are so much more than maiden, mother, and crone.
I am the Earth, The Sun and the Stars
And I am the also the Moon
I am all animal and birds,
And I am the outcast as well, and the thief
I am the low person of dreadful deeds,
And the great person of excellent deeds
I am Female. I am Male and I am Neuter.
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Re: Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by freyja13 »

Lady_Lilith wrote:Anciently speaking, goddesses were not put into "maiden, mother, crone" categories. This is a modern invention. It really depends if you want to see the Celtic (Welsh) gods in the original lenses or the modern or a mix of the two. If modern is better for the practitioner one has to be careful in projecting too much onto the gods.

For me, godesses are so much more than maiden, mother, and crone.
Thats a good point.
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Re: Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by Corbin »

Welsh Goddesses cannot be appreciated simply at face value; they most often are represented as catalysts of change in stories. Pehaps unlike many cultures, their methods are often of secondary importance to their roles and the mortal women who often act in the role of a goddess (achieving ones aims) are subsequently discarded once they have achieved these aims. Documented Welsh deities hold hints toward more ancient proto-deities beneath a patena.

A good book on the subject is "Celtic Goddesses" by Miranda Green if you can get hold of a copy.

This article may be of interest also -

http://www.goddessalive.co.uk/issue-12-home/arianrhod/
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Re: Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by Firebird »

Many of the Welsh, Irish and English had triple Goddesses. I guess the natural progression was to fit them into maiden mother crone roles. The Celts were partial to the magic of three, and since there are 3 stages to a woman's hormones the fit was nicely preexisting. ::coolglasses::
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Re: Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by SnowCat »

In the first Xanth novel, A Spell for Chameleon, Chameleon was a woman who went from maiden to mother to crone, over the span of every month. She also went from beautiful and ditzy, to ugly and wise. Average was mid month. I don't know if there are ant deities who go through that. It was just one of those random late night pop up memories. More pleasant than most of my memories lately.
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freyja13
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Re: Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by freyja13 »

Corbin wrote:Welsh Goddesses cannot be appreciated simply at face value; they most often are represented as catalysts of change in stories. Pehaps unlike many cultures, their methods are often of secondary importance to their roles and the mortal women who often act in the role of a goddess (achieving ones aims) are subsequently discarded once they have achieved these aims. Documented Welsh deities hold hints toward more ancient proto-deities beneath a patena.

A good book on the subject is "Celtic Goddesses" by Miranda Green if you can get hold of a copy.

This article may be of interest also -

http://www.goddessalive.co.uk/issue-12-home/arianrhod/
Thank you for the book recommendation--I am definitely going to check it out. I see it looks like a hardback rather large; does it have some nice illustrations inside? I love Mythological Books that have pictures to give you an idea-a feel of the Goddess.
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Re: Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by freyja13 »

SnowCat wrote:In the first Xanth novel, A Spell for Chameleon, Chameleon was a woman who went from maiden to mother to crone, over the span of every month. She also went from beautiful and ditzy, to ugly and wise. Average was mid month. I don't know if there are ant deities who go through that. It was just one of those random late night pop up memories. More pleasant than most of my memories lately.
I am unfamiliar with the Xanth series of books: what are they about and how do they relate to Welsh Mythology? I love novels that have elements of real mythology as long as it is accurate. I am no expert on Welsh mythology what I typed is pretty much all I know--stories my mother would tell me as I grew up. I am unfamiliar with Chameleon; was she a Welsh Goddess or is she a symbol for another Welsh mythological figure like Rhiannon.

Thank you for your reply!
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Re: Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by freyja13 »

Maybe this question should be moved to the Mythology Board; does anyone know how to do that w/o reposting and losing the replies?
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Re: Maiden, Mother and Crone-Welsh Goddesses?

Post by SnowCat »

freyja13 wrote:
SnowCat wrote:In the first Xanth novel, A Spell for Chameleon, Chameleon was a woman who went from maiden to mother to crone, over the span of every month. She also went from beautiful and ditzy, to ugly and wise. Average was mid month. I don't know if there are ant deities who go through that. It was just one of those random late night pop up memories. More pleasant than most of my memories lately.
I am unfamiliar with the Xanth series of books: what are they about and how do they relate to Welsh Mythology? I love novels that have elements of real mythology as long as it is accurate. I am no expert on Welsh mythology what I typed is pretty much all I know--stories my mother would tell me as I grew up. I am unfamiliar with Chameleon; was she a Welsh Goddess or is she a symbol for another Welsh mythological figure like Rhiannon.

Thank you for your reply!
It's a fantasy novel series set in Xanth, which in its mundane incarnation, is the state of Florida. It basically takes mythological type chapters and puts them in somewhat everyday situations, with which they have to cope. It isn't hard core mythology by any means, but it can be an entertaining look at what the deities may have to cope with.
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