was it black magic?

Post by **saianalyd** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:52 pm

my friend has been having a lot of issues in her life, so i tried to do a problem-banishing spell for her. I didn't tell her i did this.
however, i have heard people say that if you do a spell for someone without their consent it is black magic.

its this true? and if so is it possible i could get "bad karma"?

Post by hedge* » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:49 pm

Post by **juliaki** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:57 pm

Black magick? By some people's definition, yes. You forced your will on her without her permission, even if you thought it was for the best. Other people would say that it isn't, because you did so for the "greater good".

Could you get "bad karma" from it? Karma isn't "good" or "bad"... it just is. Will you get karma from this? Absolutely. How it affects your life remains to be seen.

wiccan_butterfly · Post by **wiccan_butterfly** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:30 pm

well im not quite sure i agree with the person before me. but thats what opinions are for. But i personally think that you thought that this would help your friend, and your choosing to do the right thing, no its not considered black magick at all, because black magick and what you did are to totally different things, if you are still curious just PM me and we can chat

Post by hedge* » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:28 pm

juliaki wrote:Black magick? By some people's definition, yes. You forced your will on her without her permission

So - if you "forced your will " on them to heal, is that considered black magic too???

Magic has no colour or definition until the caster gives the energy focus and intent. If the intent is good then so be it.
Your definition of good may be totally different to mine - so who's to say whether the outcome will be good or bad. The thing with magic is that you have to be prepared for the consequences - and there will be them.
Laws of science and all that jazz.

wiccan_butterfly · Post by **wiccan_butterfly** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:24 am

hedgewitch wrote:
juliaki wrote:Black magick? By some people's definition, yes. You forced your will on her without her permission
So - if you "forced your will " on them to heal, is that considered black magic too???

Magic has no colour or definition until the caster gives the energy focus and intent. If the intent is good then so be it.
Your definition of good may be totally different to mine - but, hey - if the intention was good then the outcome will be good. The thing with magic is that you have to be prepared for the consequences - and there will be them.
Laws of science and all that jazz.

i totally agree Hedge

Post by **juliaki** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:09 pm

There was an individual I knew a few years ago who was diagnosed with terminal cancer, Alzheimers, and progressive dementia. He was in his 80s and had lived a very happy and healthy life. At one point, the cancer made a huge leap forward, and everyone felt he was going to die. He said that he was ready to die and had made all his final arrangements, including opting not to take chemo. A group of well-meaning individuals decided to use their magick to have his cancer go into remission. The cancer did go into remission, however he began to suffer horribly bad from the Alzheimers and progressive dementia. He suffered for about two years before he finally was able to cross over. He wanted to die with dignity, but someone had forced their will on him to make him healed from the cancer. His widow also suffered as she watched her husband lose all control over his physical body, have his spirit shattered, and have everything he had worked 80 years to build up come crashing down around him. He also was in severe pain for the last year of his life.

All that was because some people did the "right thing" and healed him. And yes, they live with a lot of guilt for that.

Was it black magick to heal this individual?

I personally don't believe in black/white/gray/fuscia/whatever distictions. I do know that a healing spell can harm someone more than a curse and that the best intentions can have the worst consequences. You do the best you can thinking about all outcomes and go from there. But I do know that *every* action has karma. Whether the individual receiving the karma sees it as good or bad is really up to their viewpoint.

Post by **brokenxdreams** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:08 am

I can't really say whether or not if you will get 'bad karma'. I beleive that most of the time, you will get a good outcome if your intentions were good.

There was an individual I knew a few years ago who was diagnosed with terminal cancer, Alzheimers, and progressive dementia. He was in his 80s and had lived a very happy and healthy life. At one point, the cancer made a huge leap forward, and everyone felt he was going to die. He said that he was ready to die and had made all his final arrangements, including opting not to take chemo. A group of well-meaning individuals decided to use their magick to have his cancer go into remission. The cancer did go into remission, however he began to suffer horribly bad from the Alzheimers and progressive dementia. He suffered for about two years before he finally was able to cross over. He wanted to die with dignity, but someone had forced their will on him to make him healed from the cancer. His widow also suffered as she watched her husband lose all control over his physical body, have his spirit shattered, and have everything he had worked 80 years to build up come crashing down around him. He also was in severe pain for the last year of his life.

All that was because some people did the "right thing" and healed him. And yes, they live with a lot of guilt for that.

Other times, the outcome isn't so great. You never know what the outcome for your actions will be.

Post by **WolfWitch** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:05 am

This is why, when I have sent magick towards someone elses nneds, I keep it general. I only ask that Lord and Lady to help resolve whatever they may be struggling with in the best possible way. What that best possible way is, isn't for me to decide. I simply send some of my force to help back up whatever needs to be.

AP.

Post by hedge* » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:54 am

WolfWitch wrote:This is why, when I have sent magick towards someone elses nneds, I keep it general. I only ask that Lord and Lady to help resolve whatever they may be struggling with in the best possible way. What that best possible way is, isn't for me to decide. I simply send some of my force to help back up whatever needs to be.

AP.

But isn't that just going with the flow?
Let the gods will decide.
What is the point of magic if you can't change things to how you want them?

Post by **WolfWitch** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:17 pm

hedgewitch wrote:
WolfWitch wrote:This is why, when I have sent magick towards someone elses nneds, I keep it general. I only ask that Lord and Lady to help resolve whatever they may be struggling with in the best possible way. What that best possible way is, isn't for me to decide. I simply send some of my force to help back up whatever needs to be.

AP.
But isn't that just going with the flow?
Let the gods will decide.
What is the point of magic if you can't change things to how you want them?

If they allow me to I do, when I do it for myself, i do. But if I am sending power their way as the people described above, I keep it general so as to avoid imposing my personal will on anyone.

WW.

Post by hedge* » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:15 am

Ok
Thanks

Post by **Comus** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:28 am

In my opinion (and experience) if you feel a spell is not ethical you can cast an adjustment spell. The idea is to re-consult whomever you called on to aid you in your initial rite and restate your renewed intentions. I did this with a spell I cast that had rather heavy consequences (someone nearly died).
Have a talk to your friend. Ask her if she feels the aspects of her life you targeted are problems she would like to be free of. If so, you probably don't need to adjust the spell. If so, adjust it.

Post by **Nyte_Wytch** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:59 pm

hedgewitch said:
So - if you "forced your will " on them to heal, is that considered black magic too???

I had someone answer this question once with a yes. It was explained to me that to heal someone I could be taking away what ever it was meant for them to "learn" from the experience and thus it fell under the Black Magic heading. I then stated well if their sickness ends in death then what did they "learn", how to die? I've tried so hard to be open minded and read all that was offered as an explanation for three fold/Karma and the like but I still can't wrap my mind around the concept.

:::Looks down at sig line:::

The thing with magic is that you have to be prepared for the consequences - and there will be them.

Exactly, simply put- for every action is a reaction. Thats why I always tell people to be very careful with the spell they choose, they need to look at it from all angles and see if anyone is caught in the ripples that shouldn't be there etc. I believe there are many who have blamed "three fold/karma for their problems instead of seeing it was simply a bad or wrong spell choice.

:::sigh, again reads sig line:::

Post by **Nyte_Wytch** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:04 pm

hedgewitch said:
What is the point of magic if you can't change things to how you want them?

:::claps, whistles and does a happy little dance:::

That is, in my opinion, what magic is all about.