Went to a Christian forum to get clarification on their views of homosexuality and spirits. I've told them my views, my experiences, and what I am able to do.
They got PISSED to say the least. They didn't do much than say I am wrong on everything, and tell me nothing except the Bible says so.
I've also noticed that non-believers will join trying to figure things out. They'll ask honest questions, and because their views and beliefs differ from the Christian norm, they get criticized and called heretics, satanists, blasphemers, etc. And there is a good number of threads that were locked and a good number of people banned. Its okay that they believe their views are correct, but they shouldn't criticize and punish other people for their beliefs.
I can see why people become disillusioned with it. I'm trying to give Christianity a chance, but some Christians are making it awfully hard.
Went to a Christian forum
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hedge*
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Your key word there is SOME. Not all Christians are the same just like not all pagans are the same. I've been on many a forum where if you don't agree with the head honcho then you get verbally attacked and banned.
You, like me, have visited the wrong forums. I'll search out a decent one for you if you give me a day or two.
You, like me, have visited the wrong forums. I'll search out a decent one for you if you give me a day or two.
Hedge will find you a decent one, Christianity with in its self is not the bad guy, but some of the followers ruin what could be a decent beleif. This coming from a Roman pagen so what does that tell you.
as I said before James to give it a chance you should first and foremost read the bible start at the beginning and go all the way to the end, do not skip do not stop, and then think about what you read then you look to your heart for the answers if that is your beleifs.
Because you seek answer for christian i will give you one verse that is the best proof that most christians have lost their faith.
" And unto him jesus said: This is my fathers house built for him, and in his name, you ask only for tive and gold, so I say unto thee where ever my fathers name shall be on in the heart of he who calls, there shall we be, and that shall be his house.
Jesus condeming a church that had become to greedy.
You see when i post I respect the religion, but the followers have to earn it. Christian is not following the word of men, but following the teaching of a father and son.
I can help you with the passages, and tell you what it says. But the beleifs are not my own, so those I can not help you on save one very precious thing, the advise of any pagen. Look to your heart and see what you find for gods like to hide the answers where most men will least likley to find it the last place you will look, in side yourself.
Exilus
as I said before James to give it a chance you should first and foremost read the bible start at the beginning and go all the way to the end, do not skip do not stop, and then think about what you read then you look to your heart for the answers if that is your beleifs.
Because you seek answer for christian i will give you one verse that is the best proof that most christians have lost their faith.
" And unto him jesus said: This is my fathers house built for him, and in his name, you ask only for tive and gold, so I say unto thee where ever my fathers name shall be on in the heart of he who calls, there shall we be, and that shall be his house.
Jesus condeming a church that had become to greedy.
You see when i post I respect the religion, but the followers have to earn it. Christian is not following the word of men, but following the teaching of a father and son.
I can help you with the passages, and tell you what it says. But the beleifs are not my own, so those I can not help you on save one very precious thing, the advise of any pagen. Look to your heart and see what you find for gods like to hide the answers where most men will least likley to find it the last place you will look, in side yourself.
Exilus
James, it sounds as though you wish to remain a christian but you are finding there is conflict between christianity and many of your other beliefs.
My advice is to continue believing in God, but disregard much of the bible as is inherently flawed as it was written by men, often many years after the actual events depicted.
It sounds to me as though you want to remain a Christian, but you also want to discover that speaking to the dead and so forth are not sins. I don't believe that if God did exist, then he would see that as a sin. (I don't believe in the Christian God, or in fact any form of sentient deity, but that's by the by).
Just my opinion.
My advice is to continue believing in God, but disregard much of the bible as is inherently flawed as it was written by men, often many years after the actual events depicted.
It sounds to me as though you want to remain a Christian, but you also want to discover that speaking to the dead and so forth are not sins. I don't believe that if God did exist, then he would see that as a sin. (I don't believe in the Christian God, or in fact any form of sentient deity, but that's by the by).
Just my opinion.
That's cool Sobek, you 're up there with me , I am Satanist, Necromancer, Apostate, Heretic,Blasphemer and Evil. I am also a few things I've no desire to repeat. Ha ha. The title Heretic is the one I'm most fond of, but Necromancer is a close second.Why? I talk to the deceased too. I have attempted to help those in distress, on other forums and was a little naive as I didn't go to PM's to do so,as I saw no need to hide who I am - I 've learned to be more cautious since then. James, as I showed you with the spiritism link and as all the others are saying, there are Christians out there who do not subscribe to the fundy. viewpoint, it's best to find them, but not that easy, as the empty vessels shout the loudest - and tend to shut up the others, bullying is prevalent on those forums, again as everybody said already. This is a good place, argument dosen't have to mean distress and here you will find helpful and interesting discussions. I'll go see too, I study this kind of thing and I may have some links , I'm so out of the loop when it comes to books, as I don't have enough time for reading in depth.
There's a thread somewhere around here about 'what happends after death' (forgive the spelling... it wasn't me!). I put something in there about 'heaven' possible being one place, but different to everyone according to their beliefs, expectations and experiences. Anyway, what I mean is that You should try to relax about labelling your beliefs. They are YOURS not some Christians or Wiccans. Unless you have joined a church or coven that is specific to a kind of tradition then you should work out what makes sense to YOU and feels right inside. That you believe in a Christian-esque God and a lot of witchy stuff doesn't make you evil or indecisive, it just makes you YOU.
Learn everything you can and discard what doesn't work for you. You'll feel better than if you try to fit yourself into someone else's mold.
Learn everything you can and discard what doesn't work for you. You'll feel better than if you try to fit yourself into someone else's mold.
I'm not necessarily wanting to stay Christian, I'm just trying to figure things out.
I have studied many eastern religions, and though I did take some good things away from them, and they are good religions in my opinion, a lot of their teachings a beliefs don't make sense to me.
I see all western religions as mostly the same. Christianity (and all its denominations) Judiasm, and Islam (not really western, but is much more similar to western that eastern). They all beleive in the same, just a few big points of contention, and then just different rituals and a lot of argueing over the fine details.
I was raised Catholic, so that is why I'm exploring the Christian faith further, and there is a lot of good ideals in there. But some things don't make sense, and I'm trying to understand the Christian views in there.
The other religion(s) I'm looking at are Wiccan/pagan.
There are two sides to every story, so that is why I tried joining a Christian forum. I went there seeking understanding. Instead I got ridicule. It is ironic that it is some Christians that are pusing me away from Christianity, instead of pulling me closer, which is what they are supposed to according to their beliefs.
One of them told me it was a sin to use reason, if the use of that reason is against God. They are pretty much saying it is a sin to think! Wouldn't it be better to be an informed, intelligent follower of God, that blindly and ingorantly following, in their opinion?
They told me ghosts are Satan's minions, sent to decieve me. I not saying thats not true, but that is not the case with all ghosts. And they assumed I prayed to them. I told them I didn't, that I only talked, and they said it didn't matter, it was a same thing! I wonder if talking to you guys here is the same as praying to you?
They told me over that it is a choice to be gay, despite my bisexual fiancee telling me it is not. O r they said she was possessed by a demon that makes her be that way, which isn't the case.
I asked them about Jesus talking to ghosts, and they said that wasn't a sin becuase he was making the bad ones go away. I've done that before, so why is it a sin for me?
I have studied many eastern religions, and though I did take some good things away from them, and they are good religions in my opinion, a lot of their teachings a beliefs don't make sense to me.
I see all western religions as mostly the same. Christianity (and all its denominations) Judiasm, and Islam (not really western, but is much more similar to western that eastern). They all beleive in the same, just a few big points of contention, and then just different rituals and a lot of argueing over the fine details.
I was raised Catholic, so that is why I'm exploring the Christian faith further, and there is a lot of good ideals in there. But some things don't make sense, and I'm trying to understand the Christian views in there.
The other religion(s) I'm looking at are Wiccan/pagan.
There are two sides to every story, so that is why I tried joining a Christian forum. I went there seeking understanding. Instead I got ridicule. It is ironic that it is some Christians that are pusing me away from Christianity, instead of pulling me closer, which is what they are supposed to according to their beliefs.
One of them told me it was a sin to use reason, if the use of that reason is against God. They are pretty much saying it is a sin to think! Wouldn't it be better to be an informed, intelligent follower of God, that blindly and ingorantly following, in their opinion?
They told me ghosts are Satan's minions, sent to decieve me. I not saying thats not true, but that is not the case with all ghosts. And they assumed I prayed to them. I told them I didn't, that I only talked, and they said it didn't matter, it was a same thing! I wonder if talking to you guys here is the same as praying to you?
They told me over that it is a choice to be gay, despite my bisexual fiancee telling me it is not. O r they said she was possessed by a demon that makes her be that way, which isn't the case.
I asked them about Jesus talking to ghosts, and they said that wasn't a sin becuase he was making the bad ones go away. I've done that before, so why is it a sin for me?
I can't disagree with a single thing you've said, and those are among many reason why I'm no longer Christian.
As to the eastern religions, I've done a bit of study on Taoism. I was searching for my path recently, similar to what you seem to be doing, and I found a very good website that gave the main (and many not so main) points and dogmas for nearly all the known world religions. I've posted it before, but I'll do it again here www.religioustolerance.org
The two religions that I found that I fit most perfectly with are Wicca and Taoism. I've come to the realization the Taoism as a religion doesn't work for me, I hate the heirarchy that can be involved and I don't agree with the quest for immortality. But generally, the Taoism philosophy (not religion, you'll learn those can be two very different things!) has a lot of the same principles as Wicca, for example balance, duality, reincarnation.
I suggest you look a little more closely at the Tao in relation to Gaia, Mother Earth. You might be surprised at what you find.
As to the eastern religions, I've done a bit of study on Taoism. I was searching for my path recently, similar to what you seem to be doing, and I found a very good website that gave the main (and many not so main) points and dogmas for nearly all the known world religions. I've posted it before, but I'll do it again here www.religioustolerance.org
The two religions that I found that I fit most perfectly with are Wicca and Taoism. I've come to the realization the Taoism as a religion doesn't work for me, I hate the heirarchy that can be involved and I don't agree with the quest for immortality. But generally, the Taoism philosophy (not religion, you'll learn those can be two very different things!) has a lot of the same principles as Wicca, for example balance, duality, reincarnation.
I suggest you look a little more closely at the Tao in relation to Gaia, Mother Earth. You might be surprised at what you find.
I've got a similar ,but by no means exhaustive or definitive, link here-
http://www.kheper.net/index.htm
The link Sercee gave is a good site, I've used it.
I look over the above one when I need a quick overview of some areas of belief. [ I use the topics index, don't know about the rest, yet. ]
http://www.kheper.net/index.htm
The link Sercee gave is a good site, I've used it.
I look over the above one when I need a quick overview of some areas of belief. [ I use the topics index, don't know about the rest, yet. ]
I went to a Christian Church for years, up to my late teens. It was a great place to socialize and they helped me through some very rough spots as my family is disfunctional (to say the least), and it was the only place in my very small hamlet that explored spiritual issues at all. However, I believe now that fooling around with Christianity can mess up your head. Most of their beliefs and customs are pagan. There is so little in the religion that is original to it. Exilius, knows much more about this than I do as I just started my studies anew recently. I don't think it is wrong to go to Church or wrong to study the beliefs of Christians as it is stolen paganism wrapped in a pretty bow, so of course our belief systems are going to greatly overlap. But, as you study Christianity, study as well Egyptian and Greek Mythology it should help keep it in perspective.
Reason is out to lunch. How may I help you?
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[Enlightenment]
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