What am I doing wrong? I've been studying paganism, magic and the occult for 6 years, I've been a witch/magician/whatever for about 3. I've summoned and evoked strange spirits and Lucifer himself. I can do the Chaotes Vortex Rite by memory. I have created powerful servitors that are happy to do what I want them to do. I am not trying to sound arrogant, but the point is, at the age of 16, I can hold my own with most all but the adept practicianers, but one thing still escapes me, the one thing that opens up a myriad of gateways leading to the strange and unknown. Astral projection. I've tried many times over the last couple of years, and all have failed. WHY?!
What is it that I have failed at? What have I not done to prepare myself for this? Help, please, I need to know.
What is it I am doing wrong? Why can't I do this?
What is it I am doing wrong? Why can't I do this?
---Wolf---
"And a godlike man--a man who is pure force--inaccessible to any compromise--is called a hero."
"And a godlike man--a man who is pure force--inaccessible to any compromise--is called a hero."
Lucifer himself, huh?
Well I can think of a couple possibilities:
1) You aren't adept at calming yourself. I mean truly relaxing. You might force things.
2) You need to spend more time working at lucid dreaming first (while this isn't necessarily the case it seems to be connected and you've expressed frustration at your lack of control in dreams before).
3) You just might not be able to. Noone can do everything.
You should take it easy, give yourself some time and allow things to happen without being forced. It'll work or not.
Well I can think of a couple possibilities:
1) You aren't adept at calming yourself. I mean truly relaxing. You might force things.
2) You need to spend more time working at lucid dreaming first (while this isn't necessarily the case it seems to be connected and you've expressed frustration at your lack of control in dreams before).
3) You just might not be able to. Noone can do everything.
You should take it easy, give yourself some time and allow things to happen without being forced. It'll work or not.
*sigh* For the longest time I tried those methods. I tried calming myself, lucid dreaming and such. I'm just fed up with it at this point, so frustrated. I always seem to reach that point where everything is all tingly and you feel amost weightless...then thats it. I have been in that state for an hour and nothing. I timed it!
There are many things to learn in the astral, limitless possibilities, fantastic grimiores to be found that can't be seen in this world. Close..but just beyond my reach......
There are many things to learn in the astral, limitless possibilities, fantastic grimiores to be found that can't be seen in this world. Close..but just beyond my reach......
---Wolf---
"And a godlike man--a man who is pure force--inaccessible to any compromise--is called a hero."
"And a godlike man--a man who is pure force--inaccessible to any compromise--is called a hero."
Actually I just thought of one more thing to keep in mind. Again, it isn't exactly black and white, but it probably affects everything and I mean EVERYTHING you do right now...
You're 16. Hormones. Betcha the path opens up when you're body's gotten to about where it wants to be.
Anyway, regardless of all the reasons and such, don't let it frustrate you so much. There's honor in pushing to succeed, saying 'F*** You' to the possibility of failure, but it's never served a purpose to just bang your head on a wall either. As you say, you're fed up. You can't succeed at this time, but that doesn't mean you can't at another time.
You're 16. Hormones. Betcha the path opens up when you're body's gotten to about where it wants to be.
Anyway, regardless of all the reasons and such, don't let it frustrate you so much. There's honor in pushing to succeed, saying 'F*** You' to the possibility of failure, but it's never served a purpose to just bang your head on a wall either. As you say, you're fed up. You can't succeed at this time, but that doesn't mean you can't at another time.
i have to say i find this a little amusing. it's not that your powerless, you know you arent, but astral projection is different to every single thing on your above list. its something much higher than the summoning of all manner of beings, it would seem all the practices listed are somewhat irrelevent in the shadows of astral projection.
...and the one thing you dont seem to have that is essential aside from what Lady Sercee mentioned, is patience.
and 6 yr's isnt bad really, some spend majority of thier lives trying to astral project.
...and the one thing you dont seem to have that is essential aside from what Lady Sercee mentioned, is patience.
and 6 yr's isnt bad really, some spend majority of thier lives trying to astral project.
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[ravenwing]
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:53 am
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- Location: Fairhaven, MA USA
You might want to look at another aspect of this.... the things youre claiming proficiency at are all things that you "control" in a major fashion.
The ability to Astral Project is related in part to the abilty not to control, but to "let go" of that control and allow the Universe to take you on a journey, not for you to hold the wheel.
The ability to Astral Project is related in part to the abilty not to control, but to "let go" of that control and allow the Universe to take you on a journey, not for you to hold the wheel.
So here's my theory.
I suspect, that while patience will help, control is the core issue you need to work with.
What do I mean by that? Well, summoning stuff, creating servitors, etc... that involves maintaining total control of your environment. In order to astrally travel, you have to give up control for a bit.
This means unhooking the bonds that hold your soul in your body and let your spirit float to the sky. This is a big deal when you use your will most of the time to reinforce those bonds. After all, the more you are in your body the more control you have... even in magic. After all, that's the whole point of grounding and centering: making sure you are in your body and have all your means at your disposal. But when you let go... you give up a lot. Suddenly you are tissue paper floating in the air, and very vulnerable.
Astral travel is more like meditation. People who can't meditate usually have a very hard time with astral travel. After all, that's why all the teachers stress that you meditate a lot: so you prime your spiritual muscles for astral travel.
So truthfully, you aren't doing anything wrong. Astral travel is hard, and to find your path to to that practice you have to use different parts of your personality to cope with it. You have probably come to the cusp of a major spiritual development. Big changes usually bring great frustration.
How can you start working towards that? Start by letting go. Start with your anger about this subject. If it pisses you off, you aren't going anywhere. Striving will get you exactly nowhere with astral travel.
So I'd say find a zen master and start meditating. OR get a drum or a rattle and let the spirits guide you out of your body. Have you tried chamomile tea with mugwort and a *pinch* of valarian? Make it strong and drink it slowly, but be sure you are in your meditation place when you start sipping, because it may start before you expect it to. Also breathe in the steam. It works better when you don't sweeten it. :17:
Another way to practice for Astral travel is by scrying. It's like you have to be partially out of your body to scry well. Remember that scrying isn't easy either, and there are many people who can't do it.
Do you do much visualization? Many people use that as a springboard into the astral. Try "Psychic Dream Walking" by Michelle Belanger.
She might speak to you where others have failed. She may not call it astral travel by name (I suspect she loathes that term), but it's still astral travel. While I don't own this book, I did go to the workshop she did based on it. It's great material.
I suspect, that while patience will help, control is the core issue you need to work with.
What do I mean by that? Well, summoning stuff, creating servitors, etc... that involves maintaining total control of your environment. In order to astrally travel, you have to give up control for a bit.
This means unhooking the bonds that hold your soul in your body and let your spirit float to the sky. This is a big deal when you use your will most of the time to reinforce those bonds. After all, the more you are in your body the more control you have... even in magic. After all, that's the whole point of grounding and centering: making sure you are in your body and have all your means at your disposal. But when you let go... you give up a lot. Suddenly you are tissue paper floating in the air, and very vulnerable.
Astral travel is more like meditation. People who can't meditate usually have a very hard time with astral travel. After all, that's why all the teachers stress that you meditate a lot: so you prime your spiritual muscles for astral travel.
So truthfully, you aren't doing anything wrong. Astral travel is hard, and to find your path to to that practice you have to use different parts of your personality to cope with it. You have probably come to the cusp of a major spiritual development. Big changes usually bring great frustration.
How can you start working towards that? Start by letting go. Start with your anger about this subject. If it pisses you off, you aren't going anywhere. Striving will get you exactly nowhere with astral travel.
So I'd say find a zen master and start meditating. OR get a drum or a rattle and let the spirits guide you out of your body. Have you tried chamomile tea with mugwort and a *pinch* of valarian? Make it strong and drink it slowly, but be sure you are in your meditation place when you start sipping, because it may start before you expect it to. Also breathe in the steam. It works better when you don't sweeten it. :17:
Another way to practice for Astral travel is by scrying. It's like you have to be partially out of your body to scry well. Remember that scrying isn't easy either, and there are many people who can't do it.
Do you do much visualization? Many people use that as a springboard into the astral. Try "Psychic Dream Walking" by Michelle Belanger.
She might speak to you where others have failed. She may not call it astral travel by name (I suspect she loathes that term), but it's still astral travel. While I don't own this book, I did go to the workshop she did based on it. It's great material.
Most of what I wanted to say has been covered in the last post, by jcrowfoot, but thought I'd drop my opinion into here too 
.
For me, astral projection has always been about 'letting go' - just like other posters in this topic have said. It's not a long trek which involves effort, it's not a 'skill', 'ability' or something you 'force' your body to do.. It's completely the opposite - it's the ultimate in mind relaxation.
Therefore, by the same logic, until you learn to completely and utterly relax your mind.. You'll never astrally project. The only way I can describe how relaxed you have to be is in terms of the level of control you demonstrate already. Imagine the amount of effort, or concentration, you may have to put into a particularly tasking / difficult-to-control situation or spell... Now flip that over and imagine the exact opposite on the 'relaxed' to 'concentrating' scale, where 0 is normal, +10 is severe concentration and -10 is entirely relaxed.
If what you do usually is up near the '+10' end of the scale, you might find it hard to relinquish control of your mind enough to push it down to the '-10' end. But that's what you've got to do if you want to astrally project.
Visualisation helps massively, since it can reinforce a relaxed state of mind - by visualising something that will soothe you and calm your mind. This is why it's used in hypnotism techniques, where they might tell you to 'imagine a sandy shore' or a 'tranquil garden'. It tells your mind that it's 'OK' to switch off, and to stop processing things quite as quickly. In this state of mind, your mind becomes almost like a computer linked to a massive database, just waiting for a single command. Therefore, you can open up specific areas of your mind - for instance, long-forgotten memories (as is sometimes done in hypnotism).
Astral projection will only occur when your mind is in this entirely relaxed state. Any new thought, any reason for your brain to start processing new information, will act as an anchor - stopping you from projecting. The less interference from other thoughts, the clearer your mind will be, and the more efficiently it'll respond to a single command - to project.
As others have said, it can take some people a lifetime, whereas to some it comes completely naturally. The worst thing you can do, though, is get frustrated about it. If anything, that's the worst thing you can do. Negative thoughts breed negative actions, and that frustration will prevent your mind from giving up control enough to be able to project.
Projection is something that 'just happens', not something you can make happen. Basically... Just chill, man.
Elem
.For me, astral projection has always been about 'letting go' - just like other posters in this topic have said. It's not a long trek which involves effort, it's not a 'skill', 'ability' or something you 'force' your body to do.. It's completely the opposite - it's the ultimate in mind relaxation.
Therefore, by the same logic, until you learn to completely and utterly relax your mind.. You'll never astrally project. The only way I can describe how relaxed you have to be is in terms of the level of control you demonstrate already. Imagine the amount of effort, or concentration, you may have to put into a particularly tasking / difficult-to-control situation or spell... Now flip that over and imagine the exact opposite on the 'relaxed' to 'concentrating' scale, where 0 is normal, +10 is severe concentration and -10 is entirely relaxed.
If what you do usually is up near the '+10' end of the scale, you might find it hard to relinquish control of your mind enough to push it down to the '-10' end. But that's what you've got to do if you want to astrally project.
Visualisation helps massively, since it can reinforce a relaxed state of mind - by visualising something that will soothe you and calm your mind. This is why it's used in hypnotism techniques, where they might tell you to 'imagine a sandy shore' or a 'tranquil garden'. It tells your mind that it's 'OK' to switch off, and to stop processing things quite as quickly. In this state of mind, your mind becomes almost like a computer linked to a massive database, just waiting for a single command. Therefore, you can open up specific areas of your mind - for instance, long-forgotten memories (as is sometimes done in hypnotism).
Astral projection will only occur when your mind is in this entirely relaxed state. Any new thought, any reason for your brain to start processing new information, will act as an anchor - stopping you from projecting. The less interference from other thoughts, the clearer your mind will be, and the more efficiently it'll respond to a single command - to project.
As others have said, it can take some people a lifetime, whereas to some it comes completely naturally. The worst thing you can do, though, is get frustrated about it. If anything, that's the worst thing you can do. Negative thoughts breed negative actions, and that frustration will prevent your mind from giving up control enough to be able to project.
Projection is something that 'just happens', not something you can make happen. Basically... Just chill, man
. Elem