karmic debt question

[[Obsidian]]

Ok, here's a philosophical question for you all. I believe in karmic debt. Not necessarily in the 3x law but I think that you get what you sow. So, in that sense, what role does intent play in your magickal work. Let's, just for an example, say that you are putting a love spell on someone because you want him/her to break up with whoever they are together because you want them to get together with you. Efficiency of love spells aside, if the spell doesn't work and you don't really harm anyone, are you still collecting debt because of intent or does nothing happen because you spell didn't harm enyone?

Harry

[jcrowfoot]

I think that spells that don't work just fizzle. The energies just cause a lot of etherial smoke. This is why you want to cleanse often, and so on.

As for karmic debt for fizzle spells.... I don't *think* so... but I'm not Ma'at's helpline so not sure.

[ATraveller]

I'd say yes ... think of it as chess. You make a move, they make a countermove which means your plan doesn't succeed, but you still made it known to the universe.

That's my take on things at least.

For me, it's not so much about Karma as it is about flinging around energies. If those energies don't hit their target, they'll return to sender - you.

I'm actually wrestling with a similar question: Lately, I've been doing "train" work, as in, I've been trying to make sure that I always arrive exactly when the train pulls up. Now, suppose that this makes the train run late? What then? A lot of people are going to get upset, this will generate negative energy, but where will that go? Right now, I can't quite figure out what kind of repercussions this might have on me ... on one hand, you don't have a defined "doer" as such, but on the other hand, if it's really working, and because of that, someone else runs five minutes late and misses their bus or whatever, then essentially wont it be my fault anyway?

And if it will be my fault, is there then any kind of work you can safely do without stepping on someones toes?

A

[Tymar]

You have already sent out your intent, into the universal energies.
I believe with every action you make, you trigger a reaction, if the outcome comes to fruitation be it good or bad for the intended person or if the spell doesn’t work at all..
Energy sent and therefore returned, (Karma)

So in short yes karmic debt will return, but I feel it also varies, for example just because they didn’t break up and he didn’t run to your side, (as the spell crafter).
How do you know how hard they struggled to stay together.. to fight this said spell. or did they feel it at all... there are so many levels.. to take this.
How do you know if he or she didn’t do there own spell to stay together, to be stronger together.. etc..

I think you get my point.
We cant tell Karama that its not fair – they didn’t break up.
I don’t want to be punished now.

Maybe ease the pain of Karma by wishing them well together. Only if your intent is true.
Maybe a spell to help them with love and fortune, or something correct the first intent..
But again, if your not sincere and just do that to counter balance..
I feel you cant fool and old fool, and you will feel it bite back.

BB. Tymar

[[Obsidian]]

Thanks Tymar, the whole situation was just hypothetical. I would never cast a spell to separate a couple. I have gone through divorce and would not wish that emotional turmoil on my worst enemy. It makes sense how you see the karmic debt in this case.

Harry

[Tymar]

Hi Obsidian,
yes i felt it was a hyothetical, sorry if i didnt get it across that way..
But at least you understood what i was saying about Karma. lol.
I know sometimes i get it all in my head and my fingers just cant keep up.

[[Obsidian]]

been that, done that, got the Tshirt hehe

Harry