Hindus & Jews of today do not worship exactly as they did thousands of years ago -- by your definition then this would invalidate them as an 'old' religion.
Basically ALL religion is 'old' religion because those that we worship are ageless. Using semantics to separate groups into Old [good] and New [not as good] divides our pagan community more than it enlightens it.
No matter where I look to read 'time', I'm still telling the same 'time'. How we do it does not make 'time' new.......
Christian Mysticism
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Release.the.bats
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The idea of time isn't new.
That's what i've been trying to say this whole time.
The idea isn't new the worship or way to understand it is, therefore it isn't exactly the same as it was when it first began.
No, they don't. But they follow the same text as they did then, the same Gods, traditions etc. as the old Hindu's did.
Fundamentally they are Hindu's just as much as the old ones were.
That dosen't change.
Wicca blends together different pagan traditions, that is new.
That's why wicca isn't old, but the traditions are.
Which what i've been saying over and over again.
That's what i've been trying to say this whole time.
The idea isn't new the worship or way to understand it is, therefore it isn't exactly the same as it was when it first began.
No, they don't. But they follow the same text as they did then, the same Gods, traditions etc. as the old Hindu's did.
Fundamentally they are Hindu's just as much as the old ones were.
That dosen't change.
Wicca blends together different pagan traditions, that is new.
That's why wicca isn't old, but the traditions are.
Which what i've been saying over and over again.
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[SnowRaven]
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Release.the.bats
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On Christian Mystics, Christian Deists, & Old Pagan Ritu
I have been gone a while. I did not realize what a long thread my wee post started.
Wandering about on Belief Net and elsewhere some time ago, I understand the aggravation with what a lot of Christians do. One of the most annoying is the "Jesus is the Reason for the Season" motto some are prone to using every Christmas. How often must they be told, this day and age, that he may be A reason for the season but is not THE reason? Believe me, I understand the frustration.
On the other hand, I think about self-proclaimed Deist Thomas Jefferson. There actually is a "Jefferson Bible" which he carried with him. He believed in the virtues of Jesus but believed his teachings had become distorted and such. So he deleted everything except for what made sense, what was consistent, with what he believed Jesus taught. Thomas Paine talks about "nature's god" in his works, but also has some not-so-nice things to say about the major patriarchal religions or even religion in general.
Years ago I developed an odd sort of obsession with Orpheus and learned of ancient Orphism. It seems that they, too, were mono-theistic (worshipping Dionysius as the one god) and that they had a symbolic memorial ritual of the death and rebirth of Dionysius using barley cakes (his body) and wine (his blood). Sound familiar? This occured at least 600 years before Christianity took root. One major difference, however, was their belief in reincarnation and of a belief that all roads lead to Dionysius. They believed that he had many faces and appeared to some as Apollo, some as Persephone, etc etc etc. So "the more the merrier" for you if you researched all the paths.
The closest I have found nowadays is this New Age group, established by self-proclaimed Christian mystics, known as Astara. They do not in no way villify other beliefs and traditions just by virtue of being different and not-Christian. In fact, in one newsletter I received, they did not approve similar behavior they have seen.
Wandering about on Belief Net and elsewhere some time ago, I understand the aggravation with what a lot of Christians do. One of the most annoying is the "Jesus is the Reason for the Season" motto some are prone to using every Christmas. How often must they be told, this day and age, that he may be A reason for the season but is not THE reason? Believe me, I understand the frustration.
On the other hand, I think about self-proclaimed Deist Thomas Jefferson. There actually is a "Jefferson Bible" which he carried with him. He believed in the virtues of Jesus but believed his teachings had become distorted and such. So he deleted everything except for what made sense, what was consistent, with what he believed Jesus taught. Thomas Paine talks about "nature's god" in his works, but also has some not-so-nice things to say about the major patriarchal religions or even religion in general.
Years ago I developed an odd sort of obsession with Orpheus and learned of ancient Orphism. It seems that they, too, were mono-theistic (worshipping Dionysius as the one god) and that they had a symbolic memorial ritual of the death and rebirth of Dionysius using barley cakes (his body) and wine (his blood). Sound familiar? This occured at least 600 years before Christianity took root. One major difference, however, was their belief in reincarnation and of a belief that all roads lead to Dionysius. They believed that he had many faces and appeared to some as Apollo, some as Persephone, etc etc etc. So "the more the merrier" for you if you researched all the paths.
The closest I have found nowadays is this New Age group, established by self-proclaimed Christian mystics, known as Astara. They do not in no way villify other beliefs and traditions just by virtue of being different and not-Christian. In fact, in one newsletter I received, they did not approve similar behavior they have seen.
It's like walking down an empty street, listening to your own footsteps. But all you have to do is knock on any door and say, "If you'll let me in, I'll live the way you want me to live. And I'll think the way you want me to think." And all the blinds will go up, and all the doors will open, and you'll never feel lonely. Ever again.
~Henry Drummond, "Inherit the Wind" (1960)
~Henry Drummond, "Inherit the Wind" (1960)
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ravenblackwolf
first i am a christian and a witch i don't make a distinction between the to. other people may find fault with this but i don't care. i was not made to please everyone just my god. i don't need people approval to be who i am. i know who i am. second to say that christians are all narrow minded and can't bend is an insult to all christians.first as a witch i try to heal to help to forgive thoes who have wronged me. to turn the other cheek as jesus taught. to heal through spell or prayer (how you belive) to feed the hungry as jesus did on the mount. he laid his hands on people and through love and or magick he healed not only bodies but spirits as well. you can only controll what you do. you are in charge of you. don't place all christians or witches in one category you don't know us all.
blessd be
blessd be
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GnosticDuotheist
Christian Mysticism is true Christianity
Catholicism, Orthodoxism and all the sects that come off them are not.
Jesus was part of a mystical Jewish sect, the Nazarenes, like Samson (hence why Jesus always has long hair in any artwork - they didn't cut there hair).
This sect was Duotheistic in some ways and monotheistic in others - much like many pagans are. They had a prime mover figure, some call it the Goddess Sophia, but as the sect is not known to still be in existence, it's difficult to know for sure. They also worshipped a consort couple Goddess and God, Ashtoreth (Astarte) and YHWH (Yahweh).
They brought up the children together, and this crèche like way of bringing them up was Beth Al-Hem (Bethlehem).
Miracles, Magic - they are just two words used to distinguish.
I'm just starting out and understand the theology and history side of my beliefs. I'm now looking to discover the true holidays (lots of maths and research involved) and work on the witchcraft/miracle-work side.
I believe myself to be a Christian, a gnostic, and a mystic however I am tending to shy away from the term Christian, due to it's negative connotations and because I do not want to be group in with the fundamentalists or those who believe in the infallibility of their "Christian" faith. I know that I do not have all the answers. Only the deities do. but at least I am searching rather than trying to prop up a religion that has so many holes and contradicts itself.
Catholicism, Orthodoxism and all the sects that come off them are not.
Jesus was part of a mystical Jewish sect, the Nazarenes, like Samson (hence why Jesus always has long hair in any artwork - they didn't cut there hair).
This sect was Duotheistic in some ways and monotheistic in others - much like many pagans are. They had a prime mover figure, some call it the Goddess Sophia, but as the sect is not known to still be in existence, it's difficult to know for sure. They also worshipped a consort couple Goddess and God, Ashtoreth (Astarte) and YHWH (Yahweh).
They brought up the children together, and this crèche like way of bringing them up was Beth Al-Hem (Bethlehem).
Miracles, Magic - they are just two words used to distinguish.
I'm just starting out and understand the theology and history side of my beliefs. I'm now looking to discover the true holidays (lots of maths and research involved) and work on the witchcraft/miracle-work side.
I believe myself to be a Christian, a gnostic, and a mystic however I am tending to shy away from the term Christian, due to it's negative connotations and because I do not want to be group in with the fundamentalists or those who believe in the infallibility of their "Christian" faith. I know that I do not have all the answers. Only the deities do. but at least I am searching rather than trying to prop up a religion that has so many holes and contradicts itself.
I am confused.GnosticDuotheist wrote:Christian Mysticism is true Christianity
Catholicism, Orthodoxism and all the sects that come off them are not.
Jesus was part of a mystical Jewish sect, the Nazarenes, like Samson (hence why Jesus always has long hair in any artwork - they didn't cut there hair).
This sect was Duotheistic in some ways and monotheistic in others - much like many pagans are. They had a prime mover figure, some call it the Goddess Sophia, but as the sect is not known to still be in existence, it's difficult to know for sure. They also worshipped a consort couple Goddess and God, Ashtoreth (Astarte) and YHWH (Yahweh).
They brought up the children together, and this crèche like way of bringing them up was Beth Al-Hem (Bethlehem).
Miracles, Magic - they are just two words used to distinguish.
I'm just starting out and understand the theology and history side of my beliefs. I'm now looking to discover the true holidays (lots of maths and research involved) and work on the witchcraft/miracle-work side.
I believe myself to be a Christian, a gnostic, and a mystic however I am tending to shy away from the term Christian, due to it's negative connotations and because I do not want to be group in with the fundamentalists or those who believe in the infallibility of their "Christian" faith. I know that I do not have all the answers. Only the deities do. but at least I am searching rather than trying to prop up a religion that has so many holes and contradicts itself.
How can Jesus or (Joshua) be a Nazarenes which was a sect created in response to Jesus?
Now that we have discovered the dead sea scrolls we can safely assume that Jesus was most likely an Essence.
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" - Carl Sagan
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GnosticDuotheist
Um, there is no debate about the existence of the Essenes. Everyone knows they existed. Their is debate about whether Jesus was an Essene or not.GnosticDuotheist wrote:The Nazarenes pre-date Jesus. As I also said, Samson was also a Nazerene, as in Samson and Delilah. There is still debate as to the existence of the Essenes.
Your confusing Nazarene with Nazirite, which ironically enough says "Not to be confused with Nazarene (sect) or Nasorean." on the top of the wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite
According to the article it is somewhat ambiguous and up for debate whether Jesus was a Nazirite or not.
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" - Carl Sagan