Free Will & the Future: How does Divination Really Work?

[Xiao Rong]

Something I've been wondering about lately and I'd like to hear from experienced diviners out there - what are your theories/understandings on how divination really works? What is the role of divination, if you will? For example, many people want readings so that they can "know" the future, but this necessarily raises questions of what is the role of free will and the point in knowing what the future holds if you can't avoid it anyways ... How do divinatory methods reveal the future (if at all)? By connecting with the power of deities? Synchronicity? I have also heard many people say (and I gravitate towards this explanation myself) that divination is merely a way of connecting with the divine and breaking out of tired ways of thinking to draw new connections and insights.

Sorry for the open ended questions, but how do you believe divination "works" and why?

[Firebird]

gosh Xiao...you ask the best questions!, but I have to get ready for work right now...so I'll be back after a bit FF

[Xiao Rong]

Thanks, FF! Well, the reason I ask is because the other thread about ethics made me think about how our ethics and practice is shaped by how we believe divination actually works, at the heart of things. Which sounds a little obvious, I guess, but I wanted to separate out this question from the one about ethics. I guess I also just like to keep asking questions.

[Firebird]

Hi ...I'm back..ok,this insight

Synchronicity?

Is probably the biggest indicator, ..because when things happen simultaneously there is always a woah! moment, and oh wow, something is trying to tell me something. Unfortunately most people brush these incidents aside instead of following their inner gut. Also when things are happening in a very easy manner,... meaning it's all flow ...if you go with it, then that is the correct path (or answer or way of thinking) If there is blockages and obstacles then this is the wrong direction (or path or way of thinking.) I guess this sounds rather simplistic, we as humans seem to like to make it more difficult.

that divination is merely a way of connecting with the divine and breaking out of tired ways of thinking to draw new connections and insights.

I like this,... I think you are pretty right on, by doing divination, by going within, and using the tools what ever they may be, and we are getting negative messages, we are now forewarned, Its more like an indicator of what's to come, not what set in stone. Therefore we can sit and wait to see if it happens or we can use the imagery to ...like you said, draw new insights....I do most of my reading with cards for myself (and sometimes friends) as tools for change. When you asked "what is our role?" Are you asking should we disclose a very negative forewarning to a friend or client? or just sugar coat it over?...and there fore be messing with their free will?
BB, Firebird

[Xiao Rong]

When you asked "what is our role?"

Well, sort of ... For instance, I am open to the idea that maybe there is something supernatural going on and that the reason why I chose these particular runes (which is my method of choice) is because they are trying to tell me something. But the skeptic in me is also open to the possibility that I am choosing runes at random and drawing connections that aren't there (although I will say that my rune draws are usually eerily accurate - certainly better than just probability). Because of this, I will never categorically state, "Yes, you are going to win the lottery", but I will say, "Well, ___ seems to have a strong influence on your life right now." I am protecting against the uncertainty inherent in both the divination method, as well as the fact that the future is not certain and we are all co-creators of our destinies. My role is not to "see the future", even though that's what most people ask for in readings, but to help bring out the intrinsic wisdom of the runes to people who are interested in listening. This wisdom may or may not be indicators of the past or future (and if they do, that's awesome!), but I think that the meaning of the runes are fascinating and always useful to reflect on, no matter what.

Are you asking should we disclose a very negative forewarning to a friend or client? or just sugar coat it over?...

Should we disclose a very negative forewarning? I mean, at least in my practice, I will generally state if the runes look positive or negative, and in what way, but always with the caveat that 1) this is my interpretation, 2) the future is changeable, and forewarned is forearmed, and 3) all "negative" runes offer some possibility of hope. I will refuse to answer questions such as "When am I going to die?" because that's not, in my opinion, a question that the runes can even begin to answer.

...and there fore be messing with their free will?

We all have "free will" (which is necessarily limited by our relations and interdependence on other people), and anything we do influences other people. But I think there's a power dynamic in divination for other people - by asking for divination, they are placing the power in your hand by trusting in your authority and knowledge. By the end of the session or reading, I hope that the power is back in their hands, and hopefully they have more power than before to live their lives as they see fit. But I don't know if "prophecies" - straight up, inescapable foretelling of the future handed down by the diviner's authority and knowledge - help give that power back to the asker, as well as open-ended interpretations where the asker is empowered to decide what to do with the information, as well as reinterpret themselves. (I guess this did become an ethics thing after all!)

[-Dark-Moon-]

Do we all really have free will?

[MistressOfTheMoon]

Hello Xiao!

Hmm. Personally, I believe that divination works through our subconscious; and our subconscious is connected to the gods (I refuse to name them for now because I believe that deities are nothing more than personifications of the Divine - and oftentimes, astrology). Divinations are never set in stone. Your readings now may change tomorrow depending on your decisions today. Hope this helps!

May the Spirit guide you.

[MistressOfTheMoon]

Do we all really have free will?

Of course we do! Then again, I am speaking in theory haha.

[Xiao Rong]

Do we all really have free will?

I think so, generally. We don't have complete free will in the sense that we can do anything we want (we are bounded, for instance, by the laws of physics, as well as our relationships to each other, the Earth, etc.) but we have agency and creative power within our lives. I don't think things are governed by the Fates, or karma, or anything like that ...

[Firebird]

I guess it kinda does boil down to ethics... I think if something looks horrible than we should tell the client, so that they can choose to divert or wait until the ball drops. Or yes, work in the energy of the positive, maybe the lottery is more tangible in those times?

My role is not to "see the future", even though that's what most people ask for in readings, but to help bring out the intrinsic wisdom of the runes to people who are interested in listening.

This is really it, the wisdom of ancient knowledge and how we apply it to our lives now.

As far as free will...gosh, it seems like something that only resides in the mind. Because if everyone went free willing all over the place..then,...ooops chaos! but order usually springs from chaos, ...so??? hummmmm
FF

[-Dark-Moon-]

Love is the law... Love under will ...

If you're aligned with your higher power, or divine will, then maybe one would describe your thinking as truly 'free'. Otherwise there is a potentially deterministic 'trapped' nature to our existence, subconscious or ego/id-driven patterns we are yet to become aware of or escape.... Still functioning via Malkuth, having never seen beyond the veil of yesod...

[-Dark-Moon-]

Since this is a witchcraft forum,... If we have free will then how does karma or the 3 fold law fit in?

Or are we simply creating the world (unconsciously vs consciously) as a mirror of the world within us, attracting externally what we are manifesting internally? (Magic(k)).

As above - so below.... As within, so without.

How about our soul contract we made before incarnating ? Was that made under free will?

In the words of Nelson Mandela... If knowledge is power then only the educated are free....

The meaning of 'occult' is hidden. The purpose of reading is to provide that which is to unveil the hidden - this process brings conscious awareness and therefore personal power to effect change, which is the cornerstone of all mystical teachings. One must respect the oracle.

[MistressOfTheMoon]

Since this is a witchcraft forum,... If we have free will then how does karma or the 3 fold law fit in?

Or are we simply creating the world (unconsciously vs consciously) as a mirror of the world within us, attracting externally what we are manifesting internally? (Magic(k)).

As above - so below.... As within, so without.

How about our soul contract we made before incarnating ? Was that made under free will?

In the words of Nelson Mandela... If knowledge is power then only the educated are free....

The meaning of 'occult' is hidden. The purpose of reading is to provide that which is to unveil the hidden - this process brings conscious awareness and therefore personal power to effect change, which is the cornerstone of all mystical teachings. One must respect the oracle.

Hi Dark Moon,

From how I see it, free will is exactly where karma or the Threefold Law fits in. We can do whatever we will (just as freedom of choice entails) but we must keep in mind the karmic law for whatever we send out to the universe comes back to us. Cause and effect.

I agree with you on 100% purpose of a reading. Very insightful. Divination must be respected because it allows us to peak into the future and change our decisions in the present.

As for your question regarding the soul, I cannot answer that. It makes me wonder indeed how we get our souls. Anyone here care to share his/her thoughts on this?

[-Dark-Moon-]

Hmmmn, so you think the universe keeps a balance of what occurs and then returns us our 'debt'... That doesn't really
Make us 'free' then to do what we like without consequences does it?

If there were consequences, why would truly 'evil' people be reincarnated to increase suffering for everyone on the earth, especially people without any previous 'karmic debt' in this life?

Playing devils advocate this week !

[MistressOfTheMoon]

Hmmmn, so you think the universe keeps a balance of what occurs and then returns us our 'debt'... That doesn't really
Make us 'free' then to do what we like without consequences does it?

If there were consequences, why would truly 'evil' people be reincarnated to increase suffering for everyone on the earth, especially people without any previous 'karmic debt' in this life?

Playing devils advocate this week !

Ha! I never looked at it that way Well, while I do believe in karma, I have yet to find my stance in reincarnation. What I do believe is that the truly evil people are unable to get past the lowest plane (aka hell or limbo) and is therefore stuck there when they die, making it impossible for them to get reincarnated. But this is not to say that only truly evil people are unable to pass on to a higher realm when they die, and this deserves to be on another thread lol.

And yes in that sense, it does not make us entirely "free". Freedom in the context of consequences entails being responsible for our actions; and responsibility is a burden. But if we take freedom solely in its essence, we are truly free to do whatever we wish. As humans, both unfortunately and fortunately, we cannot take freedom in its essence and not think of the consequences. I think that is for the good of all things.

And oh! I don't remember much from the movie but that is a good one! Or were you referring to yourself metaphorically? Lol.